GUEST POST BY ROBERT UNDERHILL
“Medicine is gender neutral” is a true enough statement if by that we mean female nurses and techs are comfortable providing virtually all of the intimate care for men and women. Gender neutral works for the caregivers perhaps, but oftentimes not for the men.
The relative male-female parity amongst physician ranks generally affords both men and women with sufficient options. The problem for men is lack of options at the nursing and tech level, where most intimate care occurs. We don’t expect women to have male techs for their mammograms. Why do we expect men to have testicular ultrasounds by female techs? Why do urology practices with predominantly male patients only have female nurses & techs for cystoscopies and other very intimate procedures? Why the double standard?
As with any human trait, there is a continuum when we’re talking about modesty. On one end of the spectrum are those guys who have no modesty whatsoever. The healthcare system is fine as is for them. On the other end are men who forego healthcare rather than have female nurses and techs for intimate care. The system is failing those men. Most men are somewhere in-between the two extremes.
Interestingly, when articles are written about men not going to the doctor, modesty is never listed as one of the reasons. Why is this? Partly because it is the elephant in the room that the medical world does not want to discuss and partly because men are afraid to speak up. Why won’t the medical world acknowledge the issue? Because they’d then be obligated to do something about it. Why won’t men speak up? Because all too often when he does he gets “you don’t have anything I haven’t seen”, “don’t be silly”, or “we’re all professionals here”.
Basic bullying and shaming techniques are intended to shut down the conversation rather than acknowledge the concern and then speak to it. It actually works most of the time but it greatly amplifies the patient’s embarrassment. Better to instead respond with “I understand your concern and wish I could accommodate your request but we don’t have any male staff. Know that I take your privacy seriously and that your exposure will be kept to the absolute minimum”. And then give an example or two of how you do that.
Being empathetic in this manner will satisfy many modesty concerns. What you don’t know is that he may have been fearful of repeating a particularly bad experience. That you are comfortable with the man’s exposure is irrelevant. He is the only naked person in the room and it is his exposure that he is concerned about, not your comfort.
But most guys have no modesty you say; it is a rarity to encounter a modest guy. Not even close on the first point. Correct on the second, but only because you didn’t know he was modest. Most are afraid to admit it because doing so is not “manly”. Societal norms say men are not supposed to be modest; that it is a sign of weakness. Males are socialized from childhood that when faced with an embarrassing medical exam or procedure to “man up” making believe it doesn’t bother them. To acknowledge embarrassment only serves to amplify it. This is what they have been doing since their first sports physical in Middle School when the female NP hired by the school (with a female assistant by her side) does a genital exam. Such a powerful message from the school is not forgotten.
Female nurses and techs do not intentionally embarrass their male patients. They’re just doing their job how they’ve been trained. The problem is that training all too often starts with the premise that men have no modesty. Better training is needed. Here’s a start. If he jokes about his exposure, he’s trying to hide his embarrassment from you. If he maintains a tense silence, he’s just plain embarrassed.
Many men have mastered the “it doesn’t bother me” disguise and you won’t detect anything at all. What can you do to ease the embarrassment, or at least not make it worse? Ask him if he’d prefer your male co-worker do the intimate procedure. Knock and ask if it is OK to enter the room. Close the door or pull the curtain. Kick anyone out that doesn’t need to be there; don’t turn it into a spectator sport. Ask for an OK before bringing a student into the room and properly introduce them, including what exactly they are. Use a sheet to keep the genitals covered before you pull the gown up to examine the abdomen. Ask before lifting the gown to check the catheter. Basically give him the same consideration you’d want your Dad, brother, husband, boyfriend, or son given in the same circumstance.
If in doubt about whether a protocol is OK, reverse the gender of everyone in the room and then ask yourself the question. If the answer is no, then it’s not OK for your male patient either.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR:
Robert Underhill is a retired executive living in Vermont. More importantly, he is a husband, father, and grandfather. His goal is to raise awareness to the lack of attention paid to men’s modestly and hopes to achieve gender parity throughout all levels of the healthcare team. We sincerely wish more men will add their voices to this very important yet neglected topic.
Copyright secured by Digiprove © 2016 Linda Girgis, MD, FAAFP
With all the major important issues going on in the world today, I find it difficult to comprehend that men are making an issue of having their genitals exposed in a medical setting. I am happy to have medical care of whatever type is needed. I do not care if the provider is male or female. Are you naysayers concerned about the sexual orientation of the provider? Would a gay male offend you if they needed to expose your genitals? Are you ok with a lesbian who has no interest in men?
I have had both males and females tend to me when I have been exposed for various reasons. As long as they are competent in their job I am ok.
Until six years ago I was a model and actor in NYC and I made a good living at it. I can tell you that males in that industry were NEVER given the care that the females got in protecting our dignity. Very often the men were never given dressing rooms because the women had them all. We guys had to just change out in the open or maybe behind some stacked boxes. When we had to do a scene or a photo shoot either scantily clad or nude the females would have a team of women keeping her covered until the last minute before the shoot or the scene we were doing while the guys just had to stand around naked. This team of women would glare at us guys with suspicion as if we all were just a bunch of pigs getting our jollies out of getting a glimpse of whatever body part might not have been covered quickly enough. I never saw any male model or actor being provided an assistant who would do for us what the females got; someone to quickly hand us a robe or even a towel to quickly cover ourselves when the job for the moment was done. What’s worse is when a guy may be thought of as too comfortable with his lack of modesty, making the best of an uncomfortable situation, and the message is that we shouldn’t expect it, then some female might get her panties in a twist and accuse him of exposing himself … then HE’S in trouble and it very well may have a negative impact on his career.
I got out of that business when I met my wife and we started having children because I needed an income I could count on, but I am still frequently around people who continue to do what I did and I know nothing has changed. The men just have to make-do with whatever they can while the women’s modesty is the highest priority.
This discussion means a lot to me as it gives me the confidence that there is a problem and others are willing to describe what they have endured.
I had a Cath done about a year ago. A woman nurse came in to have me watch some videos on the procedure. The lady was kind and showed empathy. In the video it described the preferred method is to go through the arm to the heart; however, if there were complications with the arm entry they would go through the groin. Afterwards, she said in order to prepare for the surgery I will need you to undress and put on a gown. She told me that she would be respectful to my needs for privacy as much as possible, but I would need to have my lower arm shaved and my groin. She asked if I would be okay with her doing this. I felt okay as she was kind, gentle, and showed empathy. She left the room, and I gowned up.
When she returned, she said again, “Steve, I will be quick and have you covered back up. Do you have any questions?” This part of the procedure was good, and I felt like she really cared for my modesty.
When I was taken into the Cath room everything was horrible. I felt violated and embarrassed. I was lying on the table with a blanket over me. The back door opens, and three women nurses and two male nurses came quickly into the room they were laughing and joking about something … I have no Idea what they were laughing about. One of women was on the left side of bed and two of women were on the right side of bed. The two men were at the foot of the bed. No one even talked to me. Not one of them addressed me by name. One of women pulls the blanket off me and I am completely naked with these five nurses still laughing about something. One nurse pulls my penis out of way and the other two are rubbing something all over my legs and groin area. The men were just watching all of this. Again no conversation. The room was cold … very cold … their insistivity was just as cold. They yanked … I mean yanked the blanked back up over me and left. One of men looked over his shoulder while walking away and said your doctor will be with you soon. Wow – first conversation. I was never so embarassed.
I’m not against women or men providing my helthcare, but when they have no empathy in the process I feel violated. My post shows both sides of the issiue where I had a woman nurse that showed a caring and profissional attitude and the other women and men nurses that had a horribel attitude and showed no professionalism. I was scared about the procedure and their attitude made it so much worse.
Five years ago my husband was sent by an insurance company from his work that was paying long-term disability due to a botched colonoscopy that punctured his intestine and bowel causing recurring abcesses and possible Chron’s Disease. They sent him because, apparently they didn’t think he should be on LTD even though he’s paid into it for 38 years.
He called the office and told them he would NOT remove his clothing! “Oh, no! It’s just……like a consultation, that’s all! He had sworn to me he would not remove his clothing. I don’t allow that shit! I can be one hateful bitch if anybody in the medical field tries to go too far or even mentions it. I’m out!!
So we get to the place and it’s an Urgent Care clinic. After all the preliminaries…….vitals, whisper test, etc. this “doctor” comes in……..sloppy, slouchy, nasty looking, hair not combed, clothes hanging on him, no lab coat and little toes sticking out the sides of his shoes! He talks to my husband for a bit and then tells him to lay back (I was in the room). My husband complied. At the time his dominant arm was in a sling with shoulder broken.
The “doctor”said “Well we need to unbutton your shirt”, which he proceeded to do, not my husband. I’m thinking “He promised me”. Next the “doctor” said “Uhhhhh, I guess we need to unbutton your pants” My husband raised his head as if to stop him but then it was “Uhhhhh, we need to unzip your pants” My husband just laid his head back down and let iy happen. He wouldn’t even look my way. I was both, hurt and seething! If my butt hadn’t been glued to that stool in disbelief I’d have left that room in a helluva hurry!
After this was FINALLY I had to help my husband button his shirt back up. YEP! The “good doctor” offered to undo and unzip his clothing but walked out and left him that way! I was beyond mad! Beyond disbelief! My husband then said “I was just waiting for him to put his hand IN my underwear”…..”Say What?” He said “I was going to stop him”! Too late then, I’m telling you T O O late then! As it was he put his hand up under my husband’s testicles and pushed up so he could ‘palpate’ his ‘groin pulse’.
When we left out of there I was white hot mad! We get to the vehicle and my husband asks “Well did everything go alright this time?”
“Do WHAT?” “I CANNOT believe you LET him half undress you AND unzip your pants! I f**king cannot believe it even though I saw the whole thing and YOU allowed it!” Can you NOT ever stand up for yourself and against the ‘system’?” It had made me physically ill. We came very near divorce and I told my husband “Had he put his hand in your underwear, it’d been too late to try to stop him, he’d have already had hold of you!” Hell, as it was I watched that doctor’s every move. He would not take his eyes off the bulge in my husband’s underwear. I shudder to think what would have happened had I not been in there.
I do not cotton to this kind of unnecessary crap! I have absolutely no problem walking out, cussing out, kicking (kicked one doctor across the room for yanking my covers when I was asleep and when I woke up immediately, I didn’t know who he was standing there in punk baggy street clothes, no badge, no lab coat. The door back against the wall caught him. He didn’t try yanking my covers anymore. I know I have rights and I excercise them………..strongly and rudely if I have to.
Of course if you have to go to an ER the first thing they want is to put a gown on. NOT! Not gonna happen! I’m not going to make their lives easier. I have to look at myself in the mirror. Not gonna catheterize me, not gonna do a lot of things unless it’s a life or death situation. Do not remove clothing for MRIs, CTs, or anything else.
So I was very angry at my husband for allowing what he had promised me! Yes, he said he was ‘raised’ that you do as they tell you. BS, so was I and I’ve been a fighter since I was 5 yrs old! Tore a nurses dress off her when I was 10 because she thought she was going to give me a shot in the butt. Didn’t happen! Yes, we’ve had 3 children, yes I had to have 4 surgeries, two were major and life threatening. That’s one thing, but when not absolutely medically necessary, they need to back up. Don’t take clothes off for ultrasounds. Had a blood clod in my lower leg, tech’s first words were “You’ll have to take your pants off or lower them to your ankles. My husband was in there and knew what was coming………..”Hell no! I’m not taking my clothes off! Bye!” and with that I saluted her and started for the door. She did the ultrasound with my husband holding my loose pants up to my groin.
Y’all are right! The medical field just EXPECTS people and especially men to roll over and take it! I don’t, I won’t, I never will! I took some medical training, I know my rights and I do not make a good patient! If that doctor had put his hand in my husband’s underwear after him promising he was not going to do anything but a consultation, anything else and he’d walk out! He didn’t! He allowed that to happen. Had it happened we’d have found a lawyer before we came home, no question!
I love my husband and at this point we’ll soon, very soon in a matter of days, be married 52 years, since I was 15 and he was 17, but we have had an inordinate amount of strife in our marriage, one of which was losing our baby girl at the age of 26 in a wreck March 2004, soon be 20 years. She was like me, a fighter! Maybe even worse! I cannot stand a person who exhibits weakness, especially in my family. There’s been much, much too much in our years because of his weaknesses (not just medical, but enough of it was). I’m done with it!
My husband may be facing several tests due to unexplained weight loss, too much weight lost. But again one has to stand on their principles and if by now he still is not going to stand up against the unneeded and unnecessary, if he gives in to what is not needed i.e. stripping and wearing a gown for an MRI or CT Scan and a MULTITUDE of other things…………..they want you to strip and give you that stupid little gown that exposes you down the back for too many stupid things…..just to make their life easier. I’m not about that and I hope my husband has learned his lesson as well. I have ordered MRI and CT Scan (and any other scans) safe clothing (sweats and tee shirt). IF he does not deny them having their way it’ll probably be bye-bye sweetheart.
Anything absolutely medically necessary i.e. life or death emergency, some surgeries (for many one can keep their underwear on and NOT be catheterized after they get you out!). But one has to take those matters into their own hands. If not, if you let it be and you are embarrassed, feel like a heel, exposed when you do not want to be……………..it’s that person’s own fault.
I have even turned one doctor in to the AMA and I won! I had acid reflux and was sent to him, a gastro. We went in and the nurse took my vitals and I started removing my overshirt for the BP and she said “Well, actually your husband will have to leave the room.” “What, why, we’ve been married 33 years (at that point)” My husband left the room. She handed me this little see-thru paper thing that only went to the waist and said “And the doctor prefers to see his first time patients disrobed”.Well needless to say all hell broke loose! After a barrage of not-so-nice things I threw the door open and hit my husband in the head, I didn’t know he was back there.
My husband said “Here, Christine (my mother’s name) where are you going!” I was stomping down that hall…mad isn’t even close to what I was feeling! I turned and said “SOB wanted me to take off all my clothes for acid reflux, ain’t doin’ it!” This young woman was filling out her paperwork as a first-time patient, she stopped, looked at me and laid the clipboard down and came on in behind me. I turned him in to AMA as a pervert! I won, the AMA agreed that that was perverted, it was absolutely uncalled for and could be construed as sexual abuse and harrassment! I sent the clinic he worked for a copy and I send him a copy directly. He had the audacity to write me and tell me that if I’d just reconsider and come back he felt sure we could have a good doctor patient relationship. Didn’t happen!
ALL of us, men and women have got to stand up and fight the system. They are so used to people just complying that they start their BS “You don’t have anything I haven’t seen before”, “you’re just another naked body”, Oh, get over it and get your clothes off”, yada, yada, yada! Well, guess what? It ain’t MY body you been seeing so f**k off! Yes, they try shaming and everything else, even same sex will shame you………….they can try, I don’t shame easily……..but I bitch easily! So, we ALL have to stand up and FIGHT, stop giving in, stop “manning up”, that is not manly! I see it as weak, not strong. And believe me, my husband has a woman in his life to stand up, stand by his side to fight them. No problem……..as long as he doesn’t say “Now honey, let ’em do what they need to do”. OK, fine “I’ll leave you to them”! I left the hospital and went home where I’d been staying round the clock with him.
First of all I’m over 50 now and have been going to nudist resorts and nude beaches since 1998 and have probably been seen by over 10,000 people. One resort held and annual event in July that would draw 2000+ people every year.
2018 was the first time I went to a dermatologist. I wasn’t sure who I was going to see a man or a woman. It didn’t matter to me. When I had Safelight install a new windshield in my car – it was done by a woman.
I was taken care of a by a female today but she wasn’t a doctor. She was classified as a Physician’s Assistant – Certified (PA-C). After filling out the paper work a receptionist brought me back to the examining room. I was given a gown to wear and told to undress but leave the underwear on. The girl left an a minute later there was a knock and 20’s something girl came in, introduced herself and said she would be assisting the PA-C. She asked me a few questions and entered the info in the computer.
The PA-C came in the room. The entire time I was in the room the assistant sat at a wall mounted desk behind a computer entering data. There was a spot on the left leg above the knee I wanted removed, a mole in the ‘bush region”. Three skin tags on the right leg crease where it meets the testicle sack and 5 to 7 skin tags on both armpits. The night before I trimmed the bush back.
Because the robe was on with open side to the back it wasn’t possible to check me, So I had to reverse it. She burned off the spot on the leg and sent some off for a biopsy, same with a little brown spot about 4 inches below the right nipple.
For the genital region I then lowered my underpants to my knees holding them with one hand. The PA-C shot me with some silver spray gun with liquid nitrogen freezing the skin tags and mole which would fall off within a week to 10 days. I had volunteered to hold everything aside with my free hand and she said that would be fine. She held the pray gun with two hands. I also move the right leg outward for better visibility.
A full body exam was then conducted as I had never had one before. The robe was a problem when trying to raise my arms up so she could look at the armpits. So I suggested I just take it off for the rest of the exam. I told her I didn’t mind. She checked me out head to toe and then told me I would have to lower the underpants again.
I said ok and that I wasn’t embarrassed. I pulled them half way down then let them drop to the floor and stepped out of them. The PA-C was sitting on short wheeled stool. I turned my back toward her and she examines the buttocks and said I had a chigger bite on the right cheek. She told me to bend over and touch my toes which exposed the anus. Everything was good there. I got up on the examining table and layed back. Ooo that paper was cold.
The PA-C tapped the sides of my knees asking me to bend the legs up. As I did so I spread the legs apart. The PA-C examined the testicle sack and my (circumcised) penis. She pinched the cock head with her fingers pulling upwards to stretch it out, then rolled some of the loose skin down with her other hand to examine the ridge of the head and shaft for lumps or dark spots. All was good. When she was done I lowered my legs. I’m over 50 so erections don’t pop up in 10 seconds like they used to. It takes a little work. She asked me to bring my arms back and put both hands behind my head. Looking at the skin tags in the armpits she said her assistant can take care of these for you. They will be cauterized.
She had taken a picture of my leg and chest region and said she would consult with one of the doctors. If they think it’s something serious they will come in and talk to you. I should hear back on the biopsy results in about 7 days. Other than that we she was through. She said to make a follow up appointment at the reception desk on the way out for 6 weeks from today. Then she walked out the door. The Doctor never came in the room. The assistant was busy at a cabinet getting the numbing needle and heating device and whatever else she needed.
As Iay nude on the table, my dick twitched a bit so I made a little leftward adjustment. Laying it over on the left leg.
The assistant came over never said a word about my penis and conducted herself professionally. She was cute too. It took about 8 minutes to remove all the skin tags. When done she then asked me to sit slowly up. She placed her hand on my back to help me sit up. She asked me if I felt woozie or dizzy and I said no. She moved to the end of the table sliding the foot step out. Looking up from between my legs she said she was going to push the end of the table in so my legs would drop down. She then backed up watching me as I stood up then stepped down. My soft dick flipped downward pointing at the floor. She told me I could get dressed and she left the room.
The follow up appointment in six weeks I had shorts on so I didn’t have to remove anything. The biopsies were negative. The PA-C (same one as before) asked me how everything looked in the genital region. I said fine. I lifted the shirt to show her the scar under the nipple which healed up good then pulled out on the sleeve to show the arm pit which was clear of skin tags. The PA-C wanted to go a little deeper on burning off the spot on the left the leg. I said ok. I wasn’t even there 10 minutes. She said come back in one year. The leg healed up pretty good, but took a long time to close up. The scab would get gooey from showers or swimming and break open again. Water Proof Band-Aids are a joke – don’t buy them.
Bruce…. your comfort level (and fetish) is not like the general population. You ENJOY AND LOVE to be nude. Well… get real…. a LOT of men don’t like being nude to anyone except their wife. I 100% HATE any other woman seeing me naked. EVER. My body is SACRED to me, and my wife. You think deep buddy… why the OVER-WHELMING MAJORITY of woman choose FEMALE DOCTORS, AND FEMALE NURSES…..for all of their exams. Yet… ya have WOMAN in healthcare everywhere, insensitive, and whom who demean men who don’t want to be seen by them. The industry tries to DE-SENSITISE IT. Do you know why? It’s because of money. Practices won’t hire male Nurses, Male Nurse Practitioners, or Male Sonographers.!!! Thats the real truth. The medical industry doesn’t give a FK how many men are embarressed in their exams. I 100% REFUSE TO BE SEEN BY WOMAN NOW…because of it. Get a clue man. I am not wrong either. And the DOUBLE STANDARDS needs to stop. More men need to start walking out of their exams where they have a female doctor and a female chaperone. Its wrong. They know its wrong, and they dont do anything about it. STOP THE BS. Start giving men the same rights to privacy, woman are afforded daily. WE HAVE FEELINGS TOO.
BS. The description is more like a porn movie. Nothing you wrote would ever happen.
Just a quick note:
Guys, notice how fast OVER NIGHT women have mobilized all over the country to meet the threat of losing abortion rights?
Why can’t we mobilize the same way against the healthcare industry to get our dignity respected & privacy protected?
Why are WE so afraid to stand up for our rights?
John
I had an ablation of my great saphenous vein in which the surgeon told me that she would be making an incision below my knee and, if complications arose, a few inches above the knee as well. She said she would run a wire down towards my ankle where I had an ulcer, heat the vein, and close the vein. The day of the procedure, I was given disposable underwear and a wrap-around gown, so I thought my dignity would be respected and protected. I was disgusted when I took a shower that night to learn that my groin and lower abdomen had been shaved right up to my genitalia. Nobody had ever mentioned my groin at any point.
Nearly two years later and I still feel violated. Nobody should be allowed to remove anybody’s underwear and access intimate areas of the body visually and/or physically, especially given the fact that they have ample opportunities prior to elective procedures to discuss these things with patients and obtain consent. It is assault. Plain and simple.
I got the whole line of excuses that “we’re all professionals,” “we’ve seen thousands of naked bodies,” “we treat all our patients with dignity,” and “it’s no big deal.” Well, they hadn’t seen my naked body and I have a right to preserve my personal dignity, which is obviously different than theirs. They took that right away from me. To add insult to injury, the surgeon accused me of declining a pre-op, which is a lie. She also lied and said it was a guy who shaved me when it was a female resident. It would have been unacceptable if it had been a guy anyway. These are just a couple of lies she told that are easily debunked by her own words in my medical record.
On top of all that, my wife has been re-traumatized. She was inappropriately touched by a dermatologist when she was a pre-teen. And so we are both dealing with PTSD. I have changed my route to work so I don’t have to look at a billboard showing doctors and nurses. I turn or walk away when I see nurses outside a hospital setting. And there are times when it is difficult to shower.
I have filed numerous complaints with the office of patient experience, the CEO, the Joint Commission, board of medicine, etc. I filed a criminal complaint in which the DA made flimsy excuses that are easily debatable. The cop just shrugged and told me to file a civil suit. But every lawyer has said it would be too costly and too time consuming.
I guess a middle aged white guy’s civil and human rights don’t matter.
So what are we supposed to do when the systems that are in place to protect us fail?
Everybody needs to file as many complaints as they can and keep the pressure on until a bold lawyer and/or politician steps up to help us. Or until enough consumers begin to see the light and start walking out, thus costing the hospitals enough revenue to wake them up.
See the article to guide you through filing complaints: http://patientmodesty.org/complaints.aspx
Hello Anonymous:
Dr. Jim C. Hu, a urologist at Weill Cornell Medicine and New York Presbyterian Hospital has stated,
Men’s health is poorly addressed in the United States.
Several offices in the federal system promote women’s health, but not a single office exists exclusively to highlight men’s unique health needs. Men’s health is poorly addressed in the United States. Several offices in the federal system promote women’s health, but not a single office exists exclusively to highlight men’s unique health needs.
He further went on to say and I quote “Men die young, in large part because their health needs are seldom met.”
Dr. Jared Bieniek, medical director of Hartford Healthcare’s Tallwood Men’s Health Center also stated “When it comes to health care, men are an underserved population.”
Then there’s this article written by James L. Nuzzo PhD. This article clearly shows there is a problem & the American healthcare system is choosing to ignore it which further goes to show that the american healthcare system just doesn’t give a damn about male healthcare.
Men’s health in the United States a national health paradox
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/13685538.2019.1645109
They are ALWAYS very quick to place blame on men for not taking better care of themselves which is partially true however, the fact still remains, the majority of the blame belongs on the shoulders of the American healthcare system itself for NOT treating male healthcare the same way they treat female healthcare.
It’s that simple.
They prioritized the healthcare system for women at the expense of male healthcare. They KNOW this is what they did but since they are ALL cowards, they will NEVER admit it or FIX IT unless forced to. In their minds, it’s okay to trade men’s lives for the almighty dollar on a daily basis.
They used a bona fide occupational qualification (BFOQ) exception back in the mid 60’s to get rid of the male orderlies who helped out (especially where intimate male issues came into play), and hired only female nurses in their place even if there was an equally qualified male nurse especially in areas like labor & delivery.
Since that move, male healthcare has suffered.
If men want their dignity respected & their privacy protected the same way women, have it today, men are going to have to do the same thing women did back in the 60’s.
Whatever it takes to make it happen.
For many men that will be next to impossible to do because they think of themselves as alpha males & don’t want to come off looking weak in front of female healthcare workers.
For the good of the species, they have to put that alpha crap aside & do what’s best for the group as a whole.
Tell your family, friends, & anyone who will listen, how the system mistreats men & boys.
Tell them how the system makes NO EFFORT to put male doctors, nurses, & techs with male patients if they choose, when intimate male medical issues come into play.
Get the women in your life to stand with you against the system.
Next, you, your family, & your friends all have the power of your vote to effect change to the system but YOU have to be willing to follow through when change doesn’t happen.
Knowing that the healthcare system more likely than not has your politicians in their back pocket, you have to show them, it will cost them your vote to NOT listen to you & make changes to a broken system.
Tell them. Here’s what’s wrong. Then explain how you think changes need to be made to help out men & boys.
If they listen & start trying to make changes great!
When they ignore you then come to you later for your vote at the next election you tell them no you didn’t help the men of this country that you will vote for someone who will help us.
Now, because the ratio of female to male nurses and technicians is so lopsided in favor of women, and most of today’s female healthcare personnel could give a rats ass about a man or boy’s dignity and privacy (the younger you are the more they love to humiliate and embarrass you), I myself feel a set of non-negotiable protocols worked out together between healthcare personnel AND men that have NOTHING to do with the healthcare industry should be put into place until such time as the ratio of female to male comes more towards the center.
The protocols would cover all public and private doctor’s offices, emergency care facilities, clinics, outpatient centers, and hospitals. Protocols would explain the EXACT procedures female healthcare workers MUST FOLLOW when dealing with a male patient who presents with an intimate male medical issue.
Any female personnel that get legitimate complaints filed against themselves by a male patient who feels that protocols were not followed will be met with severe non-negotiable consequences if the allegations are proven to be true.
Guys, other than to continue to walk away from needed healthcare, this IS the ONLY WAY WE are going to make this work for men and boys the way women made it work for themselves and girls.
We have to SPEAK UP LOUD AND CLEAR IN ONE VOICE.
NO MORE. WE DEMAND THE SYSTEM CHANGE TO BETTER PROTECT MALE DIGNITY AND PRIVACY.
It’s up to you men now.
Next time you are talking with them, ask your mom, grandmother, sister, girlfriend, or wife how they would feel if current actions by the American healthcare system caused you to lose your life prematurely. When they say they wouldn’t like it, ask them to join you in this cause.
The American healthcare system is broke. In order to fix it, it has to be re-built on Do No Harm & Choice, Privacy, Respect (CPR).
You can’t have one without the other and build a world class healthcare system.
Regards,
John
I’m glad that you quoted Dr. Jared Bieniek, he is a fantastic example of what a physician should be.
I totally agree with you. Male dignity is not something that I have experienced in healthcare for the most part.
Last week I had my third scrotal ultrasound in three years. All were female techs. I used to be pretty uptight but, once learning that I was having prostate issues, a friend with prostate cancer explained to me the facts of medicine.
I decided that female caregivers were something I needed to decide was OK. Now I am. In fact, I have found that females are far more considerate and comforting and I believe I may even prefer their care.
Thank you for saying that about bullying though. It is really not helpful at all to belittle the one who needs to wrap their minds around it.
Interestingly, with my last ultrasound we had a chaperone. I am not sure how having an extra woman in there was supposed to make it less awkward.
I don’t agree. I have had 12 Scrotal Ultrasounds. EACH AND EVERY one of them by a DIFFERENT female who 100% viewed my testicles. One didn’t like the way I placed my towel, so she lifted it without asking me to adjust it, and saw my entire penis. I was NEVER ASKED if I wanted same gender, to make me feel more comfortable in my exam. To me….. its a BIG FUCK-YOU from the medical community. In no fucking way…. did I want her to see my entire genitals. I HATE CHAPERONES too. They actually INCREASE my anger, and embarrassment. AND EACH AND EVERY one of them stared, at my entire penis, and didn’t look away. The Female Tech didn’t give a shit either. Do they care? NO. THEY DON’T CARE. DOUBLE STANDARDS WILL STAY THE SAME FOR THE NEXT 40 YEARS. Choose a MALE DOCTOR, at all cost. FUCK woman in healthcare if you are a man !!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have sold out. I STOPPED seeing female providers. Period. I will tell you what… I’ll start seeing female providers, when woman patients….. start accepting a MALE doctor and a MALE chaperone in their exams staring at their vagina, and their breasts for the entire exam. It NEVER HAPPENS. WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF DOUBLE STANDARDS. WAKE UP.
Pat, I have had 9 scrotal ultrasounds. I have cysts on one testicle and have had inguinal hernia surgery on the right. I get an ultrasound every year, becuase I don’t want to get testicle cancer. I have to somewhat disagree with you. Especially when you mention the “facts of Medicine”. You somewhat seem to be ignorant that there is a serious set of double standards when it comes to the male gender. Deciding that having females in your exams is not OK. Let me put it to you this way…. you will never hear of 2 males, in a female exam. It just doesn’t happen. The reason is because woman speak up, and won’t accept it. But at the same time, the health care system thinks its OK for 2 woman to be in your exam. In fact they LOVE guys like you who give in, and who succumb to it. I STOPPED seeing my female practitioner, because she pulled the old “ambush technique” on me, by leaving the room, and bringing in another female to chaperone me during my exam, where I had my penis and scrotum checked, and a prostate exam, during my yearly physical. Guess what….. the female chaperone stared at all my parts, and never turned away. The practitioner did nothing to cover me either. Then add up the fact that the woman who chaperoned my exam, was at the front desk when I checked out and I payed my co-pay to her. I was handing her my money, knowing that just 10 minutes before she saw all my private parts in full view. Having an extra woman in your exam, turns it into a “spectator sport”. In my case, only increases the stress of my exam and makes me feel way more embarrassed than I should be. Never once was I asked if I wanted a chaperone, or if I wanted same gender chaperone….which I believe all men should have the choice. Not all men think the same.
I am one of the extreme immodest guys who actually enjoys the opportunity to be examined by female staff. First time was at the age of 25 when I experienced a full erection while being examined by a nurse practioner and I think she was both amused and flattered. She actually pulled my underpants up for me, then pulled out the waste band and used one finger to reposition my penis when she saw it pointed straight up out of my underwear and toward my belly button after she had pulled them up. I have experienced such examinations many times and the only disappointment I have felt is that I have on some occasions been treated as though I am modest when actually I am not. I would say then that there are definitely some women in healthcare who do indeed behave in accord with the point of view advanced here. I also find it genuinely interesting that some men have these concerns. I actually thought the female staff were trying to enforce modesty due to their own concerns about being in the presence of a naked man. I was not aware they thought I might be embarassed. But it is understandable that there are men who are. Maybe it does not speak well of my morals that I am not.
You are sick……………. why would your post be included here? FETISH freak…. your post makes men look bad. If I had the power, I would DELETE YOUR POST.
I had a double inguinal hernia operation on Jan 31st 2022. I was shaved in pre-op…. my entire stomach area by a young female nurse less than half my age.. I knew this might happen, as my surgery was going to be robotic laparoscopy. However, when I woke up, after surgery, I had the 3 holes, in my upper belly button area, as I thought might have….. but for some reason, my entire genital region was also shaved clean. My penis, and all of my testicles as well were shaved totally bare. I remember 3 female nurses in the OR among the people in there before I was put out. There is no way, I could have not been “viewed” while this was done. I imagine it must have taken several minutes to shave me, that clean. It bothered me greatly that this was done. I still a week later wonder why in the hell this was done. There were no surgery cuts, performed in my lower genital region. As I said…..all the entries into repairing my hernias, were done at the belly button level. It could have easily been done, even if I had shorts on. WHY IN THE HELL was my entire genital region shaved clean??????
This is still recent enough that you can file a complaint which will force them to say why they thought it was necessary. At a minimum you should tell them that you are greatly embarrassed knowing you were shaved with multiple observers in an area not even close to the surgical site. Again it will force them to explain it to you. If nothing else your speaking up will tell them that yes some men do care about their privacy/dignity. Good luck with it.
File as many complaints as you can. I would even file criminal charges for sexual assault. See this article as a guide: http://patientmodesty.org/complaints.aspx. Odds are your groin was shaved for a possible emergency access point in case they make a mistake and need to seal off a vein. Still unacceptable because you should have been told first before you gave consent. It can also be viewed as sexual harassment because they exerted power to determine not to reveal information that intimate areas of your body would be accessed visually and physically.
you are lucky the surgen didn’t call off the surgery because you contaminted the steral field. you would had to pay for your use of hospitol You should have asked more questions,
I am male and have a female dermitologist who periodically has screened my body for cancer etc. I would not mind the exam at all if I were fully nude, but her professional training seems to be to try to examine my genitals and buttocks piecemeal. There is a peek a boo aspect to the exam that is very weird, and suggestive in a way that simply having me completely nude would not.
For some reason dermatologists don’t feel it is necessary to the gentile area. I have been going to one every six months for a few years and all that is done is the under ware are pulled out in the back and let go. with not enough time to get a look let alone a check. I am going to a female because she asks if it’s ok if she does something before she does it. The male just grabbed his scalpel and cut something off my face without letting me know. He was quick about it and I never found out why or if there was something wrong with what he cut off.
Is this blog still active??
Yes.
I haven’t seen any blogs written in the last 3 to 4 months. I’m wondering why nobody is writing in stories like they have in the past?? This is been an excellent forum to let others know about your experiences.
Joel.
A lot of men don’t like talking about their experience with the healthcare system because they think it makes them look weak & inadequate.
If more men would come forward & speak up, we could force the healthcare system to change just like women have been doing for years.
We have to use the power of our vote & put like minded people in Washington so as to put pressure on HHS to force change.
Until change happens, more men will continue to walk away from needed care rather than be humiliated by female healthcare workers.
Regards,
John
Yes, unless men speak up, nothing will change. This could be in the form of asking for male staff & if there aren’t any (often the case), telling them you are modest and request that your exposure be minimized to that which is necessary. I did this last year when the male nurse I was scheduled with for cystoscopy prep wasn’t available and I had a female nurse instead. She went out of her way to minimize my exposure, more than any other nurse I have ever had. It wasn’t her fault that there wasn’t a male available and in the end I felt respected. In arrears it can take the form filing a complaint if exposed needlessly, making an inquiry simply asking the “why” question, or making a comment on a Press Ganey questionnaire.
What’s the urologist? Can post without it.
How do I comment on here? It let me do the one time.
Have mixed views on the subject. Went through a prostate scare with Mayo Clinic and left them after multiple broken Promises for promised male-only care at University of Miami. UM kept their promise. Ended up with Peyronie’s surgery at UM with request
For male-only after care. There are no promises during surgery…they have their teams and you get what you get. Get over it. During after Care had to reminds each new female nurse I requested male. Most were understanding, some had attitude and some I heard complaining in the hall “how unfair” I was.
Who cares because the first nurse I had after
Waking from anesthesia was an exuberant female named Gabriel who rushed me, yanked down the sheet and looking at my penis said’ “Oh my! I didn’t know they wrapped it!” The male nurse took her by the shoulders and escorted her out.
Since I’ve had a lung biopsy where I was told I could leave my underwear on, only to awake nude, hernia surgery where I asked the docs female assistant to leave.
She did the 1st time But on follow up, even after I explained to the doctors and her that she made me nervous, She flew into the room just before the door closed and wasn’t discreet in her “viewing.”
Then I went through end-of-life with my roommate Steven.
He was more modest than I. He suffered so many indignities in hospitals and nursing homes. It was truly horrible beyond description
Finally he land in Broward Health’s Gold Coast Hospice where he perished. 99% female staff.
They were the most loving, caring and respectful people on the planet. They had to clean him and change catheters and they did it all with love and respect and as much dignity as possible.
So, there are unnecessary times, YES.
Nurses should be more respectful of our modesty. And, there are necessary times. Pray you get the respect these nurses gave my friend. They earned my respect and love.
My take-away; if it’s not necessity, don’t show it. If necessity, we’ll, then it necessity. Thank God for the good ones.
You’ll not get any respect or dignity from female nurses/techs/MAs Keiko. That’s reserved for when they are the patient. Men are treated like animals in health care and, until something more than mens health suffers, they won’t be changing it soon. Equality and respect only work one way today, I’m afraid. Like I said, its all privacy and no men when they are the patient. Ive always found it difficult to take women seriously on equality when they think nothing of treating men like this.
I was about at the point that I wasn’t going to get skin exams any more, but then thought to ask for a different dermatologist. I was assigned to a male Resident. He came in with a female scribe but without me even asking she was positioned facing away from me for the entire exam. This is his last year of residency, If he stays in the region I plan to switch my dermatology visits to him. If that scribe could record the necessary info w/o staring at me, any scribe can do the same.
I feel I must speak up in defense of all the wonderful female nurses and doctors out there. I am a 66 year old male and have had 25 years of serious medical issues that have often necessitated nurses and doctors seeing my genitals. I have never been treated anyway other than with great respect and at 66 I am not a particularly modest person. I have, in fact, always felt that female doctors and nurses were sensitive to my circumstances, certainly more gentle, and always professional. I never ask for male or female care I just want capable medical staff. I think we all need to grow up and understand why we are receiving the care and accept it gratefully.
joshsoferadmin, I think its admireable that you have no modestly. Thats fine. But to make the comment that “we all need to grow up” is a rotten thing to say. “Accept it Gracefully? Really? Just “accept, and succumb, shut up and take the mis-treatment? Not everyone is like you. If you have no modesty, great, but have RESPECT for the men who do, and feel embarressed. Its a REAL thing. Its very well known that men are treated quite different regarding modesty, and respect and privacy. The Health care system still needs change, and female doctors, staff, nurses, need more training on how to treat men in settings where they are exposed. Woman all say “we are trained Professionals, but then when THEY become the patient, they themselves see Female Doctors, nurses, and go to “All Female Breast Exam Centers, and “All Female OBGYN clinics”. Woman don’t have to deal with the same barriers as men by default, because their privacy is ALWAYS protected no matter what. Rarely will you ever find such a place for male patients, without have a woman someplace in their exam room.
Excuse me josh. Speak for yourself. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that every patient, male or female, have different comfort levels and I am a former medical provider! I am telling you from personal experience that not all doctors/ nurses/ techs have the same level of awareness of their patient’s privacy needs. Many staff members are overworked due to staffing shortages and want to “get the job done” and go home. Patient privacy is at the bottom of their priority list. So, remember my words the next time someone posts here because that person may be YOUR family member or friend!
Not sure how Mayo Clinic got in my post. It was Cleveland Clinic Weston FL, NOT Mayo.
Joe
I recently went for a full body exam at my dermatologist, who is a female. I did not appreciate her bringing in an assistant without asking my permission. I was standing there in my boxers while the assistant watched (not very comfortable for me). When I told her that I had a place in my genital area I needed her to take a look at, it would’ve been nice if the assistant would’ve immediately turned her back to give me some privacy. She didn’t, so I asked her to turn her back and she did. The doctor needs to tell her assistant to always turn her back and give the patient some privacy when doing a genital exam and ask the patients permission before bringing in another female to watch!
Mistake #1 your saw a female dermatologist. If your was a smart male patient you would only see male doctors.
Well I certainly don’t fit the mold here. I have no problem being intimately examined by any medical professional. I moved to a new state and had to get all new doctors; no easy task because so many aren’t taking new patients. I asked my new urologist (female) if skin cancer around the genitals is rare. She wondered why I asked. I said in all the years of going to a dermatologist, I never removed my underwear. She suggested I talk to my new dermatologist (who also happens to be a female). I did that and she is willing to look anywhere on my body I want. I know many males are modest and that is fine. Now that I’m almost 70, I have no issue with being seen by a female doctor or nurse.
For many men who might be comfortable with the female doctor, it crosses a line into something untenable when she brings in a female audience. For those men, it makes it feel like it’s been turned into a spectator sport.
I will not allow anyone but the Dr in the exam room with me. We have the technology to record/dictate to our phones and tablets(and my last couple of dr’s used iPads to access my info, and update my file), if we say no, they have to accept it.
Tom…… ITS because you (secretly) LOVE the attention……………….. You are not a solution. You are a part of the problem.
I recently went for a full body exam at my dermatologist, who is a female. I did not appreciate her bringing in an assistant without asking my permission. I was standing there in my boxers while the assistant watched (not very comfortable for me). When I told her that I had a place in my genital area I needed her to take a look at, it would’ve been nice if the assistant would’ve immediately turned her back to give me some privacy. She didn’t, so I asked her to turn her back and she did. The doctor needs to tell her assistant to always turn her back and give the patient some privacy when doing a genital exam and ask the patients permission before bringing in another female to watch!
I will take my usual position on these things even when it comes to boys physicals. The medical profession believes in gender neutrality not because it wants to but because it has to! There simply aren’t enough male nurses. There is no conspiracy here against men. A boy does not have to agree to the school physical. He can go to his own doctor.
The issue here is consent. If, for example, when you hire a surgeon you consent not only to the surgeon but to the surgery. A surgery consists of, at a minimum, a surgeon, an anesthegiologist, a surgical tech and a charge nurse. You are likely to get a mixed gender crew but all the people in the crew will be necessary and therefore have consent because they were “directly involved” in the surgery. If, however, if you go in for an examination there is no need for anyone else to be present. A chaperone, a scribe or a medical assistant are not necessary for an examination and thus when you consent to a medical professional giving you an examination you did not consent to anyone else being present. It is therefor necessary for the medical professional to obtain consent before allowing anyone else into observe.
This is confirmed by Code of Medical Ethics Opinion 3.1.2 Patient Privacy and Outside Observers to the Clinical Encounter. “Individuals legitimately present during patient-physician encounters include those directly involved in the patient’s care . . . ” The opinion goes on to say “When individuals who are not involved in providing care seek to observe patent-physician encounters, e.g., for educational purposes, physicians should safeguard patient privacy by permitting such observers to be present during clinical encounters only when: (a) the patient has explicitly agreed to the presence of the observers(s).
Applying that rule to school physicals, the accompanying nurse is operating a a scribe. All she is doing is taking notes for the doctor. That fact that she is a medical professional is irrelevant. She does not need to be present. She is not “directly involved in patient care”. Consent must be obtained by all patients before she can be present! This actually is easily obtained, if the boys do not consent and the doctor insists upon the nurse being present, they can’t play! They can, as explained before, go to their own doctors.
I do wish to offer a personal note. High school boys have raging hormones. I can remember getting an erection just because the sun came through a window. They can get erections just because their bladder is full. Getting touched by a woman for the first time since their mothers bathed them can easily result in an embarrassing erection. I remember reading a story once where a young boy had three orgasms. One every time the female physician touched him. That is just plain cruel. These sports examinations should always be done by males. Furthermore, if the doctor needs a scribe, why can’t the coach do it?
We need more people speaking up for men. Thanks.
I am sorry that many of you feel this way about your healthcare and the privacy issues that are not up to your standard. I’ve had both male and female Dr, nurse, assistants, scribes, … I would have to say that I prefer female healthcare over the males I’ve come across in my visits to the doctors, surgery, examinations and the like.
The males, for the most part, are short, rough, and off putting in their care for my well-being. The females have mostly been empathic, caring and helpful with getting the correct follow up care scheduled. However, more female healthcare folks are more likely to want to get out of the room before it gets too far into my concerns or exposure.
I’m not exactly good looking or muscular fit and chiseled out of granite. As soon as it comes time for my female dermatologist to examine under the paper drape, she whisks out off, then back on and wants to leave the room. She once ran over her male scribe she had taking notes as she excited the room.
What it seems like to me is the female healthcare workers don’t want to have to look, want to overly cautious on my exposure and don’t want to get caught or labeled a looker and hands on type of doctor.
Only once did a female assistant hang out in the room while I weighed myself wearing only socks. The scale was high tech and very accurate, I wanted to get an actual weight without clothes. She didn’t run, she didn’t freak out, she continued to talk to me as if nothing was going on. I had to step off the scale twice to allow it to reset, it was my fault not operating it correctly. I wish more medical staff could be so laid back and cool with my nudity during my medical care.
Again, female healthcare have treated me better than male healthcare workers.
Great post. The assumption that men should never have the rights that women get is one of the underlying issues – we are even ridiculed at times if we speak up. Ive had to ask several none medical female staff to get out of my exams – can you imagine a male receptionist present when a women is getting and intimate exam? The system and staff would never allow it.
I agree with you. It is important for men especially young men to have the option of an all-male team for intimate procedures. The truth is hernia exams are actually not necessary for sports physicals. See this article, http://patientmodesty.org/sportsphysicals.aspx.
It is well known Douglas that Girls in sports physicals that are done at public school do not have to show any part of their genitals or breasts to the Doctor. They remain covered. It is also known that Girls CAN get hernia’s yet their exam doesn’t require a check for them. Since that is fact, it would make a LOT more sense to have a male doctor do all the exams. Its when School districts hire Female Doctor or NPs, and every single boy has to show them their privates for the exam. Most of these boys have never had a girlfriend, or been intimate with a woman. Why in the hell should “the first time” be with a female doctor or NP having to expose themselves to them? Its just plain damn wrong all all accounts. And NO… not every boy can choose to see their own doctor. Thats not always the case.
“My rule is that no one is in the room during a medical procedure or meeting unless their participation is required.” Exactly! If your rule is not kept I hope you get up and leave!
As for Gary and Carl’s comments. What is your point!
Jim, what you say about girls being able to watch boys swimming when they were nude is nonsense. I was required to take swimming in junior and senior high school and at the Y for 6 years. There were never any females in there watching!
DOUGLAS…….OPEN YOUR EYES. DO THE RESEARCH. YES IT DID HAPPEN. SEE: https://sites.google.com/site/historicarchives4maleswimming/home/ii-archives-early-20th-century-after/b-syndicated-columnists Spend some time there. Then you will understand why I hate Ann Landers. Don’t be Naive…… It happened. Male boys FORCED TO SWIM NAKED, in Public schools.
In the 1930’s and into the 1950’s male school swim teams competed nude publicly. In school yearbooks swim teams were often photographed nude.
I don’t know about the girls being able to watch, but when I was in high school and we were going to swim for the first time, I was talking to a friend about using the school supplied granny panty black polyester suits (this was in 1986), and his dad started laughing and said “you boys get to swim in suits? We didn’t get suits, we had to strip down naked, and that’s how we swam for p.e. class” I know that his dad was in his late 40’s at that time, he never mentioned the girls being present. That would have been in the early 1960’s.
Jim, you don’t have to have a female chaperone in a modestly sensitive examination. There is no reason why a female doctor needs a chaperone. Men are not “passively aggressive”. We may be directly aggressive and misbehave during the examination but we do not file false charges against female doctors. That is a female trait. The reason that female doctors do this is because men do not like to complain about mistreatment by women. It is unmacho!
You need to object if a female doctor brings in a female chaperone. If your objection is not taken seriously – leave! If you allow this type of female medical behavior it is your own damn fault.
If you reverse the genders, would a male doctor ever bring in a man to chaperone an modestly sensitive examination of a female? Of course not! Why do you suppose that is? It is because women complain! Take a lesson!
Sorry Mr. Harcourt but the nurse has to remain present while you shower because after a mini stroke you might fall and hurt yourself. As far as she is concerned she would rather be elsewhere. She is just doing her job.
There is no need for anyone but the examiner to be present during your skin examination. Men are not passive aggressive. We are directly aggressive, we don’t file false charges against doctors although we might act up during the examination. There is no need for a scribe to be present. The doctor can use a portable tape recorder and she can type it later.
I suggest you object to kibitzers being present and if your objections are not met, get up and leave.
In my own case I had two women sitting at my feet watching my skin examination while I was naked from the waist down. When I later wrote to them and asked if they did that again to please inform me beforehand I was told to find another dermatologist. I am not going to tolerate such behavior anymore.
Doug it’s called “Deer in the headlights”. Get the guys in, get them in whatever state of undress they require then spring the chaperones & scribes on them after it’s too late & they’re in shock. & want to get it over with rather than run.
They use the technique all the time for male scrotal ultrasounds, urodynamics testing, & cystoscopy.
Many don’t think it’s worth their time to treat male patients with dignity & respect by telling them ahead of time the specifics of how the testing is done, who does it, & who will be in the room so they can make an informed decision. They figured if they did that, men will object & not get tested whereby taking money away from the healthcare system & their fun of humiliating & embarrassing men.
As far as chaperones go if the patient objects today they are told it’s required by the insurance company. If they further object, they’re told get another physician.
The only way things will get better for men is a major lawsuit against the system which no lawyer wants to take up for men or legislation out of Washington.
Men are walking away from needed care today & it will continue until something is done.
A Dr. Maurice Bernstein, M.D. has a blog that currently is up to volume 117 of men that have issues with the way the healthcare system treats them. You might find interesting reading there. Here’s the link to the current volume.
https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2021/02/preserving-patient-dignity-formerly.html
I know that this may seem inappropriate, but hear me out because this is real and I know that I am not alone here. As a male with a very small penis, I have been embarrassed by it my whole life and actively avoided exposure at any cost. Situations occasionally arose that necessitated my being exposed to female doctors or technicians. I have always dreaded it.
My wife is a healthcare provider and long ago revealed to me the truth that men try to avoid thinking about. Namely, that women in the medical profession do talk about penis size amongst themselves. Not so much doctors, but nurses and support staff will gossip a bit about a really large or a really small penis. Knowing that has only added to my anxiety. My wife of course knew this would bother me, but felt bad lying about it after my repeated inquiries.
Coming as a complete surprise to me, somewhere around the age of 50 an element of SPH (Small Penis Humiliation) crept into my psyche. I don’t understand it, and I don’t really remember exactly when it started, but it completely eliminated my anxiety. I don’t seek it out, but I can honestly admit that there is an element of excitement in being exposed to these women now. I can detect traces of this in some of these comments, which is why I know that I am not alone. I guess I’m curious about how common this is, and if anyone has any insight into where this came from at such a late stage in my life. I’m not worried about it, but I remain a little bewildered by it. This is a serious question that I hope is not dismissed as a frivolous comment.
This is an interesting insight re SPH, I also have a small penis (at least when flaccid) and was very insecure about it when younger, then later developed a SPH fetish such that I never felt embarrassed when naked in a medical setting…or so I thought until being observed by a female nurse and female chaperone. I didn’t feel I could refuse the chaperone but was definitely uncomfortable with a non medically trained employee staring at my genitals. As an employee of the doctor’s surgery how could she be an impartial observer able to protect me? There’s clearly a double standard here but men never support other men, we just compete with each other, not a problem women have.
Norm – SPH grabbed hold of me at what I thought was a late age to be developing a fetish (or, more correctly, a paraphilia) – 28. Nearly 52 now, the fantasy is still strong. If you’re still following this thread and would like to chat or hear more, let me know.
I won’t seek medical help because of the attitude of female staff below the Doctor level. There is no respect for our body and privacy on any level and it propagates throughout the rest of society – the basic contempt women have for men. Female strip searches of men in prisons, female staff and reporters in mens locker rooms at sports events. The list goes on and on – and we are constantly told its men who don’t respect women. My health will suffer for it, which seems counter productive to what they are supposed to be doing. We need more men in health care and the attitude that men can not be trusted, or respected, needs to go away. It’s wrong.
This topic has been a concern of mine for over my entire life.
When I was 7, I got a brain infection that put me in a hospital for 2 weeks, confined to bed, no allowances to get out of bed at all. I had to submit to a sponge bath every day with a female nurse, which I found humiliating. They also wanted me to use a bedpan, which I refused for as long as I could. All they needed to do was to walk me to the bathroom, but they would not. So, I chose not to have a BM for a week. Finally, I broke because they were going to give me a laxative if I did not.
Growing up playing sports, I had the “school physicals” mentioned above, but the hernia check was done with a male doctor only behind a screen, one at a time. The rest of the physical we were fully clothed. I had no problems with how they were conducted.
When I was in my 20″s, I started running a temperature. After a few days, I called my doctor’s office, and was told that I really should not delay going in because of the temperature, but my normal doctor (a male) was on vacation. His only partner, was a female doctor, could see me, and I agreed to go, not knowing how things would work out. She checked a number of things, but could not figure out why I was running a temperature, but since it had been over a 100 degrees, it was serious. So, she sat down and asked me if I could tell her anything about myself that was out of the ordinary. To my embarrassment, I told her that if I was constipated,
and had a hard BM, then I always leaked what looked like semen from my penis. She let out a giggle, smiled, and said, “something must be a little tight down there.” I did not take offense, and I do not know what she could have said to make me feel less awkward. However, that brought up the topic of prostatitus, which I had a case of a few months before. However, I did not have the same symptoms at all. Then, to my dismay, she asked if she could test for that, and I knew what that meant. By now I was convinced that we really needed to find the problem, so I agreed. However, I was terrified of something that I have not seen mentioned here. What if I became aroused? I can assure you that is the last thing I wanted. Fortunately, she was of average attractiveness, but sometimes the penis has a mind of its own. Down came my pants, but to my surprise, she did a frontal inspection of my penis and testicles first. In doing so, she tucked her hair behind her ear, and leaned forward. Well, the hair did not stay there, instead it began brushing against my thigh, and as I looked down to see what was touching me and if I could move, I could see her blouse and lab jacket had fallen open, and I could see a lot! So, I looked up at the ceiling, prayed nothing would happen, and it didn’t. Her inspection lasted less than a minute, and I don’t think she did anything inappropriate. Then came the prostate massage, which is a misnomer, and then she left me to pee in a cup in private. (A side note here, I have had my prostate checked by multiple male doctors, hers was the least uncomfortable. I have a neighbor who uses a female internist just for that reason.) The reason I am telling this story, and I hope it is not too graphic, is because I don’t think she did anything wrong (by the way, I did have prostatitus, and the medicine made all the difference in 24 hours), but to show my concern extends beyond being seen naked. I am glad she did not call in a chaperone, that would have added to my embarrassment.
Since then, I have had a few colonoscopies, and a shave for a heart angiogram, with female nurses always being present/doing some of the intimate work, and always showing the proper amount of decorum, for the most part. I always chose a male doctor.
However, I have had a couple of brushes with skin cancer, so I need to be checked out regularly for skin cancer. All was fine until my male doctor retired. Our town of a few 100, 000 people did not have a dermatologist for about 6 months. You guessed it, one that started up a practice is a female. Ex- Army. So, I decided to man – up and do my check up, seeing that I had survived an intimate inspection before by a female doctor. Upon my visit 2 things happened I did not expect. After, stripping down to my underwear, and putting on the gown, she brought in a nurse, a medical assistant, and a medical student – all female. I felt like I was at CFNM party. I was too shy to say anything. The other surprise is she did not check my private areas, although she did ask if she needed to do so and if I had any spots or moles in those areas.
It has been a year since I was supposed to schedule another checkup. I still have not done it because, now I have a skin issue on my penis. I had my male internist check it out, I know its not an STD, but none of the medications he told me to use worked. He also told me skin issues were not his area of expertise. I guess after seeing this blog, I will schedule an appointment, take my wife as a chaperone, and only allow the doctor to be in the room for the examination. With the virus going on, we’ll see how it goes….
According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), per one study 80% of men with ED never seek treatment because of these same reasons. My neighbor is a shy and fit 23 year old man, he went in to a teaching hospital for an outpatient minor knee surgery. When he woke up his underwear had been needlessly removed and part of his big toenail had been torn off resulting in pain and discomfort. After several inquiries no explanation was given him. I advised him to obtain a copy of the surgical report, in the future avoid teaching hospitals and next time write any requests and instructions on the consent form. If you are having an examination, procedure, test or surgery, you may want to insist on no contact with interns, trainees, students, observers, etc, because of germs and infections, mistakes, accidents, distractions, privacy and confidentiality issues. When a patient is unconscious it is assumed they are giving “implied consent” to almost anything a caregiver wants to do to them. In 90% of states, doctors, nurses and medical students are legally allowed to give unnecessary urinary catheters, pelvic, breast, rectal, testicular, prostate exams and other unnecessary procedures on patients who are under anesthesia without being given “explicit consent” to do so. Often multiple times by many students or interns for training purposes or any other reason. Also, multiple observers is sometimes common. https://www.elle.com/life-love/a28125604/nonconsensual-pelvic-exams-teaching-hospitals/ You may want to avoid a teaching hospital for multiple reasons. However, caregivers at almost any hospital could do almost anything to any patient when they are unconscious for training purposes or any reason because of “implied consent”. This is a common practice to train new nurses, doctors and interns. In a non-medical setting this would be considered assault or sexual assault. When an upset patient learn about this after her hysterectomy surgery from the post operative report in a teaching hospital, she was told: “It does not matter because you were unconscious and How do you think new nurses and interns learn anything?” The drugs Versed and Fentanyl are often prescribed to give a patient temporary amnesia so they will not remember what was done to them. Many women prefer or will only see female doctors. Almost all gynecologists will only employ female staff. Over half of men prefer a male doctor. Per some respected doctors: Many men still avoid medical care because of embarrassment and honest answers will often not be given if asked by a female. Per some studies, a significant percentage of men will feel uncomfortable or will completely avoid medical care if a female doctor, nurse or staff member provided it for male issues. Some men would prefer illness, no treatment and sometimes even death over embarrassment. Per one survey over 10% of men at some time have been abused or had inappropriate comments by doctors and nurses. Some men are more likely to seek or accept medical care for personal health issues if the staff (point of contact) is male [26]. Per one study new male patients seeing female doctors are 60% likely not to return. https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2017/09/08/patient-doctor-female-male-bail https://drlinda-md.com/2016/11/men-patients-forced-man-medical-setting/ http://www.sexualmisconductbydoctors.com/maletips.aspx http://patientmodesty.org/index.aspx
https://www.verywellhealth.com/patients-medicine-modesty-healthcare-2615000 https://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/11/embarrassment-reason-men-doctor.html
https://www.elle.com/life-love/a28125604/nonconsensual-pelvic-exams-teaching-hospitals/
http://www.sexualmisconductbydoctors.com/importanttips.aspx https://www.naturalnews.com/031155_medical_students_anesthesia.html
http://patientmodesty.org/surgeryviolations.aspx
http://uhsbehindcloseddoors.org/abuse/
https://www.elle.com/life-love/a28125604/nonconsensual-pelvic-exams-teaching-hospitals/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwjD4d-5vh8
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188258
Jim:
You can also tell your neighbor about
Covr Medical http://covrmedical.com/. They sell a Half Short & a Bilateral with Releasable Sides medical garment to the public so we can keep prying eyes & camera lenses out of where they shouldn’t be.
Another company is Prime Pacific Health Innovations. https://www.primepacifichealth.com/additional-supplies/. They sell Hygiene-Pro Procedure Shorts.
And a third company is Danlee Medical. https://www.danleemedical.com/Disposable-ColonoscopyEndoscopy-Shorts-H-MOON-50-S-L-or-H-MOON-50-XL3X-P689.aspx. They sell Disposable Colonoscopy/Endoscopy Exam Shorts.
If you know you are going in for a test or procedure that may leave you intimately exposed in mixed company. Call ahead & ask if the facility provides privacy garments. If they don’t, ask someone in charge or who would be doing the procedure if you can bring your own garment. If they say no either cancel & find another location or bring it with you anyway.
Call one of the companies & order whichever garment you feel with fill the need. I order some tested them at home to make sure of the fit then I ordered another pair that sits ready to use if necessary.
Unfortunately due to the state of healthcare today men have to take it upon themselves to protect their dignity & privacy since the healthcare system refuses to treat us as equals with women.
We need men to yell to the rafters ever time they treat us wrong. It’s the only way we will bring about permanent change.
VEDANTAM: Why is this? What explains the reluctance of many men to enter professions that are dominated by women? Psychologist Jennifer Bosson used to believe there was a straightforward answer to that question. She doesn’t anymore.
It’s not the fact that the field is female dominated, per se. Rather, it is the culture of the job — everything is designed for a woman to be in that particular position. For example, men don’t like wearing all white, but that’s the dress uniform for nurses. If the man wants to be a kindergarten teacher, it’s assumed he is a pedophile, because only women care for young children. And frankly, while women are very aggressive about getting into fields that were once dominated by men, demanding that the culture of the jobs be changed to make women feel comfortable, women haven’t returned the favor (you can’t be welcoming when the break-room chatter is about your period and how your boyfriends/husbands — men — are assholes). And check out the admission requirements and scholarship programs. The nursing schools are rigid about the requirements to get in. If a guy pursued a more difficult curriculum, such as physics or engineering, and had low grades because he couldn’t handle the advance mathematics, he can’t get into the nursing program which focuses solely on GPA; this holds true even if the man gets straight A’s in the actual pre-nursing curriculum, which are far easier classes from an academic point of view than the stuff he had been attempting. The scholarships for nursing students don’t include any male-only programs designed to increase the number of men in nursing (there are a lot of female-only scholarships though). Same set of academic/scholarship challenges for that guy to become a kindergarten teacher. In contrast, there are female-only scholarships for law school, MBA programs, medical school, and other formerly male-dominated fields.
All of you men have the right to your particular preferences. I totally understand how you feel because I feel the same way about my intimate healthcare providers. I only feel comfortable with women. I do expect privacy and dignity. I am ok with my male cardiologist and orthopedic drs. But as for mammograms, gynecologists, Gastro drs, always women. Men have the same right to choose.. The healthcare professionals need to check their attitudes. We are the customers.
I am tempted to ask the nurses and techs in my urologist’s office, what if your GYN had an all-male staff? Would you like them to treat you the way that your treating me?
I am happy that many fellow men are voicing their concern against female health care providers whether they are doctors or nurses or any other personnel in health care system. It is really quite embarrassing to expose one’s private parts for examination. Though some may say that we unnecessarily entertain paranoid thoughts, it is within the realm of reality that men who are quite sensitive, do feel apprehensive whether they will be booked for sexual harassment during such intimate examination. I will be happy and grateful if more men are recruited in health sector a lot of unnecessary problems can be prevented.
I have been in healthcare since 1974: Navy Corpsman, Lab Tech, LPN and RN. I saw a lot of patient nudity since then. Although patients were treated in a respectful way, there are just times when nudity or partial nudity is necessary.
Since I retired in 2009, I have been on the other side of patient nudity. I have had neurological surgeries done, and most of the docs and nurses were female. I have had full skin cancer exams nude since 2012. I was given a small drape to cover my front side while my female derm doc did a complete exam. Then she got in front of me and I had to uncover in front for a full genital exam as well. I have had skin cancer twice, so it is necessary. Her nurse is with her as well. I am not embarrassed, as I have been desensitized to nudity a long time ago. My last encounter was different. I had to have a testicle exam by a male doc. He pulled the curtain, and his young female scribe was by his side typing the exam and his statements and mine on the computer. I was standing there with my pants down. He then stepped away to get his bed student and I was semi nude with just his scribe there. I am not yet used to scribes, and I thought it a little odd. I was not embarrassed, just confused. She was not a medically licensed person. Just something new.
Gary, given your work history it is understandable that you are generally comfortable with exposure in medical settings but it sounds like you know it wasn’t right for that doctor to leave you there exposed in front of the scribe when he stepped away. That she had already seen you didn’t matter. A patient should never be exposed a moment longer than they need to be exposed, nor be exposed to people they don’t need to be exposed to. In that example the doctor failed on both counts when he stepped away. The scribe didn’t need to observe you exposed in order to take notes. Hopefully she at least turned away from you when the doctor stepped out. If she didn’t it speaks to some combination of poor training and inherent lack of professionalism on her part. I would add that the doctor should have asked your permission to bring the medical student into the room. He/she needs to learn via clinical experience but they do not have an automatic right to be present without patient permission.
Thanks for joining the discussion and sharing your experience. Those of us who have not been desensitized to nudity would have been extremely embarrassed had we been treated the way you were treated.
Yes, I am not really a prude, but this made me feel uncomfortable. He did ask to bring the medical student in the room, and I said okay. The scribe just stood there and stared at me. I was not terribly shocked, but felt uncomfortable. She was about 20 and I am 73. It just seemed odd.
I remember back when I had to have a penile implant, I went to UVA in Charlottesville. The Urological surgeon was #2 in the nation. The day arrived and I went to to see him, but I saw his fellow, a 30 year oid urological fellow. I never felt uneasy with her as she was very professional. She examined my genitals, did injections, and got me approved for the surgery. The day of the surgery, I saw the male surgeon for 60 seconds prior to the surgery and he was a jerk. I felt more comfortable with her, as she was very professional and kind.
We pay a LOT of money for medical care these days, but the thing the medical establishment does not care about is A) Pain relief and B)Dignity. In contrast. when a congressman or some wealthy rich guy goes to the hospital, both items are immediately tended to.
I literally despise the hospital culture, one which feels entitled (and exempt from accountability) to do as it pleases. For instance, I recently spoke to an older gentleman who described his brutal treatment on entering the emergency room due to a painful urine flow situation. The first thing they did was (haha) strip him of all his dignity by totally STRIPPING HIM below the belt with an audience! (how nice) Next, a female nurse comes arrives with other hands to restrain the poor man while she….brutally inserts a tube in through his p*nis and swollen prostate. He thrashed and cursed, and was scolded for doing so because, I guess, the poor nurses and doctors were “offended”.
Now tell me, IS THIS HOW THEY treat elder statesmen? Their fathers and mothers? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not? Because major consequences would follow!
This so well expresses the sentiments of many males who avoid medical care, at all cost and due to persistent disregard of their human dignity. The unjust history of inconsiderate embarrassing experiences seems mostly related to outdated paternalism and economics.
Although it virtually always happens for males who require intimate medical care, ask most females to reverse the gender in a medical setting and have a doctor of either gender impose a male PA, NP, CNA, Tech, Scribe or office worker for an intimate female procedure and they will reply; “That would never happen.”
I have read your article & total agree with every thing you say. Being a 79 year old male aprox 12 months ago I was admitted to John Hunter Hospital in Newcastle NSW Australia the result of a mini stroke, most was OK until my day of discharge when I was taken to shower by a female nurse, she remained in the bath room & watched me shower, there was not even a shower curtain to give a little privacy now if this was not enough mid way through my show a woman walk into the bathroom walk up to aprox 2 feet away looked said sorry & walk out, now this would not have happened if the nurse had done her job & locked the door. I would like to add till this happened the previous 4 days I was take to the shower by male nurse & they remained outside the bath room while I showered. on another occasion I called for a toilet a nurse brought me a toilet bottle & stood by my bed & watched me use the bottle I have never been so humiliated & embarrassed in my life.
N Harcourt, what you experienced is all too common. If there is any silver lining it is that you know you can speak up the next time. You can ask for a male for showering assistance, and if one isn’t available you can ask the female to wait outside in the manner that the male staff did. You can also file a complaint about the person who just walks in on you should that occur again. Staff know they are supposed to knock first and get permission to enter. The nurse with the toilet bottle could also be asked to wait outside so as to give you some privacy.
The fundamental problem is that female healthcare staff just don’t think male patients are entitled to or should expect any privacy. That they are comfortable with your exposure is the only thing that matters to them.
Hi powellpk.
The only way men are going to reverse this situation is to speak up & use the power of their vote & force congress to to legislate changes to the system that will better protect men.
With the ratios only going to get worse as more women are entering healthcare, if men don’t take a stand now, their sons & grandsons will wind up being treated the same way we are today.
Guys have to drop the old adage “it is what it is and there’s nothing I can do about it”.
Time to say enough is enough. We deserve the same level of respect & privacy offered to women and if it takes voting people out of office that don’t believe we deserve the same rights then so be it.
It’s time to level the playing in healthcare & there’s no time like the present to start doing it.
Regards,
John
Adding my two cents in on Jim and John’s discussion on male privacy issues in the medical field when a physician is insensitive to the modestly standards of modern men and has a “just man up and take it!” philosophy as medical fortune cookie 🍪 wisdom, rather than admit that somehow, thier bedside manner with thier patients is somehow lacking. Even though I was extremely shy as a young boy when it came to body image and how modest is too modest for a boy living between two culturally different communities, with radically different attitudes on the human body and the acceptance of male anatomical distinctions and accepted generalities and when I actually had a say, if and when the clothes came off under the watchful eyes of females of all age brackets and perceived social responsibility. Simply assuming that this or that is O.K. because Miss. So and So said it was and placed her younger daughter in charge of my hygiene or reproductive health was not reality because all these confused, well meaning people I grew up with never stopped with the mixed messages. If I don’t swim nude in front of community this weekend, I will be expelled from school. If I do swim nude next weekend, my parents will be ticketed by the police. Or one old fashioned math teacher who apparently didn’t get the memo that it was 1980, a new and wondrous agevin which the school board found they actually has a budget for anitomically correct medical dummies fornCPR and girls health class. She wouldn’t hear of it, so my clothes were taken from me for the duration of the 2 hour home economics, health, sex education curriculum that had three high quality mannequins that were good enough for University Hospitals, but irrelevant, since they had a perfectly good 13 and a half year old boy with real, non bleached pubic hair and a proven track record of showering twice a day, since no one could ever recall seeing me scratch myself and close inspections of the body parts in question was her justification for an ongoing practice the rest of the school faculty abandoned a decade previous, pointing out that this was a good thing, not understanding why a naked boy wouldn’t consider the extra attention to his private areas to be desirable, just because the teacher was using his exceptional hygiene habiits a compliment, instead of the cautionary tale that is the majority of young males my age. Was that supposed to make me feel good somehow, feeling the fingers of girls I saw everyday going through my pubes while giggling and taking inappropriate liberties with my babymaking equipment? I heard the stories from generations before me, and knew that asking any of these girls out on a date after that day would not be a good idea. The teacher wanted me to exhibit pride for a normal, well developed and maintained male reproductive system to help her sell her dogma on abstinence, (Yea, right, if she only knew the real me) and what thier male offspring should look like when well taken care of. That experience made me really feel cheap, used, objectified, and incapable of embellishment when describing my male attributes in future dating scenarios as long as these girls were around to set the record straight. When you learn cto discard male modestly completely as the sale of false goods you discover it to be during Hard Knox life lessons like these, you have the option of denouncing social boundaries and bullshit conventions for the rest of your life and saving yourself a lot of time. Using the same open pit as female G.I.s to take a dumb in and showering next to them between missions was just another reminder of privacy being something I didn’t need, and would drive myself impotent and psychotic trying to hold onto and protect. Dignity and self respect, however, are life-sustaining motivations I refuse to surrender, even to nurse’s and doctors who would rather have a discussion about my health insurance, than my health. People like that don’t see me as a human being, but a cash cow put hear on this Earth 🌎 exclusively for thier financial enrichment. Working on the farm as a child, I showed livestock far greater respect and compassion than most speacialist in thier field’s of medicine ever treated me. I saw these animals as equals, unlike the way you or I are perceived by some medical professionals. It’s really sad.
Kirk, if you don’t mind, what country did you grow up in that you were used as a live model for a girls sex-ed class? I can’t imagine such a thing happening in a US school even back in 1980. It sounds like you grew up in a family & society that had no regard for your bodily privacy. That goes far beyond the double standard in healthcare that many here have experienced.
The other thing I’m confused on is the swimming nude piece. Certainly many US schools required boys to have swim classes in the nude in the 1950’s – 1970’s, but swim competitions in the nude were typically not done. I had a mandatory swimming class in the buff my freshman year in college, but it was strictly males-only.
Kirk, if I might ask, what country did this all occur in and in what decade?
Had a Urolift last week. I was in a very small room with 6 females. Two Rn’s, Nurse Anesthesiologist, scrub tech, Urologist and Medical assistant. I viewed many videos of this procedure and never saw more than 4 people in a room. I was told that the Urologist always brings 2 of her staff for such procedures. After I entered the room the scrub tech and the Circ placed me on the or table and strapped my arms straight out perpendicular to my body. While doing so the tech said, “Make sure his gown in not tied in the back so we can get it off without any problem.” I had not anticipated I would lose my gown completely. I thought it would just be raided up over my groin. and then I would be draped appropriately. Just as I was told by the NA that I would be given sedation and I felt my self drifting off I felt a tug on my gown. My last thought was being TOTALLY naked in front of six woman. I imagine I was prepped and, hopefully, draped afterwards. This would have never happened with a woman patient.
Well, I’ve always dreamed of being naked with six women. LOL. Seriously, I had a kidney stone removed through my urethra. I was fading out when they transferred me to the operating table and pulled up my gown with several people in the room. I thought that I could feel an erection starting as all went to black. Maybe it was all in my mind. The worst part was getting a “get well soon” card signed by all the surgical staff. I told my wife, look honey, Here is a list of all the people who have seen me naked. We laughed. It was a female doctor after all. I knew where they were going to enter my body. I have a micro penis so I chose to have this done at a facility a few counties over so that hopefully I don’t bump into them on the street.
I feel for you, March 2019 I needed to have a hemrhoidectomy procedure because I was bleeding so much causing me to get light headed and nearly passing out from time to time. I drive tractor trailer for a living. This condition would disqualify me from driving if I didn’t gget it resolved. To make story short, my general surgeon used Apple Hill Medical Center and they provide the team he works with. There are several teams and the nurses do rotating with different jobs. Any how my surgeon and anethesiologist were male but the other five were female. I asked before I was administered medicine if they would want me to position myself. Staff said no we’ll do that. I just know my gown was removed or tucked under my chest. The staff certainly saw me in the raw. You don’ find out anything until surgery is about to start and already having IV’s in place and signed all kinds of consent forms. I have issues of modesty because two nurses and business admin.
sexually harassed me 19 years earlier for a vastsectomy and I have trust issues with female medical staff. I was used as a viewing specacle for the pleasure of the bus. admin. Nurse calls me to follow her to a room. Tells me only let on tee shirt and socks. I comply and nurse comes back with women I saw sitting at desk behind check in area. Both waiting about 10 min. then nurse said I’ll see why Dr. is taking so long. nurse didn’t return for at least 30 min. Mean while bus. admin. stands at door staring at my waist area intently hoping to get a look but I kept covered with shirt. I tried talking to her only for her to look at my face 2 maybe 3 times. She seemed to be in some trance staring at me, this made me very uncomfortabe. Nurse finally comes back. the pair stand just outside my room within listening distance. I heard the nurse say quote ” did you see it” to the bus. admin. Then nurse looks into room around door frame. Shortly they come in, nurse has razor blade in right hand. She states I need to see if you shaved properly. The bus. admin. tags along and gets her wish seeing me in the raw with her intense stare. Nurse took one may be two swipes with razor and states your fine. Dr. shows up they leave and I’m left feeling betrayed and humiliated.
Scott, regarding your vasectomy experience, for those here who encounter such treatment themselves, complained right then and there about what they are doing, and failing that afterwards to Patient Relations or whatever the hospital’s equivalent is. That they were admiring you does not make it acceptable. You were there for medical reasons, not to give them their sexual jollies.
I understand your trust issues. Past inappropriate behavior on the part of female nurses left me with trust issues as well. I will add that my first such experience was for a vasectomy too. Perhaps urology practices attract voyeurs into those positions. Nurses tend to gravitate to the type of medical setting that holds their interests.
Hello Eran:
Until enough men are willing to put their fear of speaking up in a medical situation, they are not comfortable with aside and just say no, I want male caregivers for male related intimate exams, tests, or procedures, nothing will change.
Currently, the Men’s Health Network is attempting to get a bill introduced in congress called the “Men’s Health Awareness and Improvement Act.”
If successful, the bill would establish an Office of Men’s Health within the federal government. The new entity would be under the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).
It’s long overdue. There has been an Office of Women’s Health under HHS since the early 1990’s.
It’s a start.
Regards,
John
I’m actually dying due to this. It’s okay, though, it’s not like I expected to live forever. I had several things I would have liked to accomplish before then, but it isn’t to be. At least I’ll die with dignity, and die alone, which is what I’ve always wanted.
Even poor Leo Tolstoy didn’t manage the latter. He hid from his wife to die in peace, and just as he was about to go, she burst into the room. RIP, Leo.
My story sounds a bit pathetic, but I’ve found that once a thing is completely accepted, it suddenly become much easier, sometimes downright easy.
Not looking for a response, gentlemen. I would like to wish you all well though.
I am a male and am actually more comfortable with women than men. While an exam is not a sexual experience, I definitely am more uncomfortable being viewed or touched by a male than a female. I am surprised that most males would prefer another guy. Odd.
As a female, I’m the same in regards to preferring a male doctor/nurse. I’ve also noticed women tend to be more heavy handed with female patients for some reason. I think because they lack personal awareness of how everything feels to us, male doctors tend to take a lot more care not to cause any pain/discomfort. I suppose I would be the same if I had to examine a man rather than a woman.
What you wrote is EXACTLY what I and a lot of my male friends and colleagues feel. We, men, should stand guiltlessly whenever a female healthcare provider dares to violate a guy’s right for privacy. Recently, I saw a female nurse in the ER performing an ECG to a male patient, without closing the curtain, exposing his naked upper body to all of the female visitors and patients there. I went and closed the curtain immediately. After she finished, I asked that nurse to explain her actions. She claimed that she usually makes every effort to preserve the privacy of any patient, a man or a woman, “but, you see… I’m dealing with very heavy workload due to a high number of patients, so it’s not always possible…” I asked her: “will you leave the curtain open while performing an ECG to a female patient (wearing only a bra) due to heavy workload in the ER?”. “Well”, she said, “it’s different…”. I didn’t want to here anymore. I told her that the next time I see her exposing a naked/partially-naked male patient in front of females, I’ll call the hospital’s security officer right away and file a complaint of sexual harassment of a patient against her. Why? because this is exactly what she would have done if a male healthcare provider acted the same way with a female patient.
Thank you for this great article.
I apologise in advance for any mistakes in my English.
You are correct! I can’t stand the cavalier attitude of healthcare professionals whether it’s a male or female patient. It should be automatic,, programmed into their minds to, draw the curtain, keep patient covered if possible. Give a darn. Care. Pretend you care.
On the other side of the spectrum,there are male patients who intentionally “set up”?the sceneries to be ,”accidentally” caught using the urinal by female staf!Staff suspect the true intentions of the patients but it’s difficult to determine intent…?
On the other side of the spectrum there are male patients who intentionally “set up”?the sceneries to be ,”accidentally” caught using the urinal by female staff.We often suspect the true intentions of the patients but it’s difficult to determine intent…?
On the other side of the spectrum there are male patients who intentionally “set up”?the sceneries to be ,”accidentally” caught using the urinal by female staff.We often suspect the true intentions of the patients but it’s difficult to determine intent…?
Dear Robert,
What you wrote is EXACTLY what I and a lot of my male friends and colleagues feel. We, men, should stand guiltlessly whenever a female healthcare provider dares to violate a guy’s right for privacy. Recently, I saw a female nurse in the ER performing an ECG to a male patient, without clothing the curtain, exposing his naked upper body to all of the female visitors and patients present nearby. I went and closed the curtain immediately. After she finished, I asked that nurse to explain her actions. She claimed that she usually makes every effort to preserve the privacy of any patient, a man or a woman, “but, you see… I’m dealing with very heavy workload due to a high number of patients, so it’s not always possible…” I asked her: “Will you leave the curtain open while performing an ECG to a female patient (wearing only a bra) due to heavy workload in the ER?”. “Well”, she said, “It’s different…”. I didn’t want to here anymore. I told her that the next time I see her exposing a naked/partially-naked male patient in front of females, I’ll call the hospital’s security officer right away and file a complaint of sexual harassment of a patient against her.
Thank you for this great article.
P.S. – I apologise in advance for any mistakes in my English.
Hi, I submitted a post 2 or 3 days ago and it still hasn’t shown up. This also happened 2 years ago, when I posted here. Is this thread no longer active? Thanks.
Hi! Yes, the thread is still active. I cannot find your post, even in the spam file. Can you try to post it again? Thanks!
Dr. Linda
I wish I’d saved it, but I didn’t. I’ll try to write it again. Thanks.
Thanks! I’ll look again maybe in the filtered folder. If I find it, I’ll post it.
Dr. Linda
We are distributing brochures about men and modesty in medical settings (http://patientmodesty.org/mensbrochure.aspx). Would any of you be interested in helping to distribute them in your community?
I also recommend you check out the article about men and modesty in medical settings on our web site at http://patientmodesty.org/malemodesty.aspx.
I recommend that you all watch our video, Surgery and Your Modesty at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVqVNTqqEnU&t=1041s. This video discusses about how you can stand up for your rights for modesty during surgery.
I like the brochure and it’s a good start. I have a male doctor and I understand for some medical procedures I have to be nude, but I find that he thinks nothing about me undressing in front of him and the window blinds completely open. He spends no time explaining what he doing and why. I feel more like a mechanic opening a hood on a car to see what is wrong. The human modesty and concern is totally lacking.
Medical Practices should establish what level of modesty and decency you desire and act appropriately. One size does not fit all.
On a recent visit to the urologist office to have a catheter removed I was puzzled why the nurse who identified herself as the person who would remove my catheter handed me a paper sheet and instructed to cover myself with it and left the room. On her return she promptly removed the covering to gain access to my catheter. It seemed like a silly charade protecting a modesty I did not posses.
Should have asked my preference/comfort level.
Welcome Jean-Pierre.
You are correct in that urologists should ascertain the comfort level of their male patients when his or her practice has no male assistants to assist with their mostly male clientele. That’s a no-brainer that has gone over the heads of urologists nationwide. They prefer a cute smile and nice pair of legs to the comfort level of their patients.
Easiest way to accomplish the task would be to put a line item question on the intake paperwork that new patients fill out when they see a doctor for the first time.
Don’t get me wrong, there are men that much prefer female aids over male ones. It is their choice and it should be respected by all men.
At the same time there are many many men who prefer same gender caregivers when male specific intimate related issues are in play. Their choice should also be respected by all and the healthcare community should put forth a much better effort to bring more men into the industry to help meet the need.
In the interim, there are ways to work around the shortage the problem is our medical community is to short sighted and set in their ways to do whatever it takes to get all their patients the best outcome possible from their ordeal.
For instance, in hospitals, male hospitalists could and should step in whenever a male patient needs an intimate male related issue resolved and doesn’t want the assistance of a female healthcare worker involved on the resolution.
Male radiologists could and should be cross-trained to perform male related sonograms when the patient doesn’t want to be intimately exposed in front of and handled by a female technician.
So, you see, there are ways to get around the problem in the short-term. Our healthcare community has a problem in that they think they have all the answers and it’s their way or don’t come to them for medical attention.
What is needed is a grass roots effort on the part of ALL men in this country to make it clear to the medical community that their ignorance towards their male patients will no longer be tolerated.
We deserve the same level of Choice, Privacy, and Respect (CPR), that the system has been giving female patients for over a half a century now.
Whether some guys think its sissy to ask for same gender care or not this is an ALL MALE issue and we need the support of ALL men if we are to break the wall that separates us from EQUAL care by a broken system.
If you or anyone else that comes here to read and maybe tell their story wants to read more about the struggles men are having with a bias medical system you can go to a Dr. Maurice Bernstein’s blog called “Patient Dignity (Formerly: Patient Modesty)”. Currently they are up to volume #97. Here’s the link.
https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2019/04/patient-dignity-formerlypatient-modesty.html
Another source of information is Medical Patient Modesty. Misty’s done some great work advancing the issue.
http://patientmodesty.org/
Thanks again Jean-Pierre for sharing your story and please spread the word far and wide so we can end this travesty of justice bestowed upon men by a broken healthcare system.
Regards,
John
Just went through a number of ER/hospital stays with a male friend due to complications from chemo; I fully understand the disparity between female and male nurses and attendants, and the necessities of emergency vs elective services. That said, I had to often say to his female nurses, “modesty ladies! Modesty.” as they left him unnecessarily exposed when performing different tasks. They would always comply, but why in the first place, and what about when I wasn’t there? Also noticed one attending nurse coming on duty would view him, lifting the covers and his robe while the others did not. At a time when he was at his weakest I know he was humiliated at some of his experiences. So unfortunate at such a sad time in his life.
Hello Kthim, welcome.
I’m sorry about what your friend is going through right now. He doesn’t need the crap our compassionless healthcare industry is dumping on him.
Its exactly because of the way he is being treated that so many other men are just walking away from needed healthcare. Many would rather wait and let nature run her course, rather than be forced to endure any further embarrassment and/or humiliation by a bunch of amateurs looking to satisfy their need to perceive to be powerful.
His situation is a perfect example why men if they choose to, MUST have other men by their side in their time of need.
If you don’t have the same plumbing, one can never really empathize with another human being on the same level. I don’t care how pretty, smart, or clever they may think they are, it just cannot be done.
The only way this garbage will end is when men and boys stop being afraid to speak up and just say stop. I want male caregivers.
If told, there are no male nurses available, reply what about male hospitalists?
Short of a lawsuit, or congressional mandate, I don’t see this nightmare ending for men because the healthcare industry has had years of practice protecting their own and they do a very good job of it.
When a female patient is violated by a male healthcare worker, they do everything in their power to make an example of him including public reprimand, loss of license if they have one, and criminal charges and everything that goes with that.
When a female healthcare worker violates a male patient, they do EVERYTHING in their power to keep it out of the press and protect her. Once the press gets wind of it, they can no longer hide it from public view and have to come up with a story that makes them out as the good guy (The Denver 5 & University of Pittsburgh nursing stories were ones they couldn’t keep out of the press).
If the press hasn’t got wind of the violation, they give the employee time off (usually with pay), so things can cool down then, they go to the violated patient and in return for their signature on a confidentiality agreement, they offer them money. Then after a short while they bring the employee back to work to pickup where she left off.
What usually happens is they take the money rather than put healthcare in the spotlight where it belongs so people really know how bad things are.
Until someone takes a case to court and goes all the way to verdict with it or by the power of their vote, force congress to mandate changes to the system, I’m afraid, our healthcare system will be allowed to keep their veil of secrecy and patients will remain at risk.
Regards,
John
I can’t find reference to the University of Pittsburgh story. Could you elaborate or provide a link please?
I just came across this story. For some reason the pictures and responses won’t paste here, but they are written by women who say they would not allow a man to have anything to do with this kind of exam. REVERSE THE GENDERS and see what kind of responses the male “victim” would get!
I should point out that Sarah Silverman is an attention grabbing comic whose first commitment is to publicity rather than the truth. She manages to get herself in the news all the time, so I’m not so sure this story has a word of truth to it.
Sarah Silverman Calls Out Male Radiologist For Her ‘Uncomfortable’ Mammogram
by ANGELA ANDALORO
Sarah Silverman has always been known for keeping it real. In her work, the comedian often pokes fun at her real life. Now Sarah is speaking out about a real-life experience that was no laughing matter.
The 48-year-old comedian recently went for her annual mammogram. It should have been a routine experience, but it left Sarah feeling tremendously uncomfortable.
Sarah explained that she has dense breasts, which means her breasts consist of more dense tissue than fatty tissue. As a result, a mammogram alone wasn’t sufficient. In addition, she also needed an X-ray and ultrasound for a comprehensive breast cancer screening. The radiologist who was giving Sarah her ultrasound behaved in a way she felt was inappropriate.
Sarah posted about the experience on Instagram. She proclaimed that while she didn’t think the man was doing this to a sexual end, she would no longer get mammograms or any other intimate imaging done by men. Her story has been met with both support and criticism.
Sarah recently had a thoroughly uncomfortable experience that she decided to speak on. In an Instagram post, Sarah detailed an incident where she was treated reprehensibly while getting screened for breast cancer.
Sarah shared the raw and emotional post with her fans. In the caption, she gives a detailed explanation of her experience.
Sarah began by explaining her situation:
“I had a s***ty time at my mammogram appt today. I have to get an ultrasound after my mammograms because I have dense breasts (insert joke here) and this radiologist — the same man I had last year — I do not like him and here is why.”
Early in her description, it became clear that the behavior she experienced was shocking and unprofessional.
“He opened my gown and put gel on my breasts and smeared it around with his bare hands,” she recalled.
The tech then started a conversation with Sarah about her chest X-ray, another portion of her exam.
“Then he started talking to me about my chest X-ray (I also got a chest X-Ray) and was pontificating with my boobs just out and covered in gel and cold and finally I said ‘Hey-can we either talk about this when I’m dressed or WHILE your doing the ultrasound? I’m not comfortable with my breasts out just shooting the s**t with you,’” she continued.
“Okay so — he smears the gel on with his hands and NO GLOVES on and when he glides the ultrasound wand thing over my breasts he drags his fingers on them and it f*****g bothers me,” she wrote.
At this point, Sarah has vocally expressed discomfort once in this appointment and once during her previous exam the year before.
“Again, AS I TOLD HIM LAST YEAR, I said ‘Hey! Do you need to be touching me with your fingers?’ He said ‘No’. And he pulled them off of me,” she explained.
His following comment didn’t make matters more comfortable.
“Then he added ‘I do that for balance.’ I said ‘Well I believe in you and I think you can do with without your fingers on me,’” she wrote.
Sarah explained her reasoning that the tech should have been more sensitive, considering the circumstances.
“Look, I truly don’t think he was getting off on it, BUT it is his job to be aware that this is vulnerable for a woman. Wear f*****g GLOVES — this isn’t a date,” she wrote. “For him to be so arrogant that he didn’t even internalize the problem when I said something to him about it last year is obnoxious and probably a subconscious power thing if we’re getting deep.“
Sarah’s next proclamation is what has caused a lot of the conversation around this publicly.
“That was my last mammogram with this dude. Or any dude,” she stated.
“Look. I’m a grown woman and I’m fine. But this guy does this with everyone and I know that personally it took many years into adulthood before I spoke up for myself,” Sarah explained. “It’s uncomfortable and too easy to think it’s all in your head. And arrogant f**ks like this doctor take advantage of women’s socialized instinct to not speak up. All this to say speak up. Trust that thing in your gut that tells you this s**t ain’t right.“
Sadly, some have tried to make light of Sarah’s situation. She posted an example of it on Instagram.
Thankfully, many women came forward to support Sarah. Plenty of others have had an experience or an instinct that makes them feel more comfortable receiving these services from women.
Many applauded Sarah for coming forward with her story. They encouraged her to follow up with the proper administrators and authorities to report the incident. Sarah confirmed that she is following up but doesn’t want to discuss the details on Instagram.
Thankfully, many women came forward to support Sarah. Plenty of others have had an experience or an instinct that makes them feel more comfortable receiving these services from women.
Many applauded Sarah for coming forward with her story. They encouraged her to follow up with the proper administrators and authorities to report the incident. Sarah confirmed that she is following up but doesn’t want to discuss the details on Instagram.
Hi Reagan:
I’d be a bit suspicious of this story also because very very few if any American medical facilities would put a male technician with a woman needed a mammogram. It’s just not done here.
Regards,
John
Yes, John, I’m 99% sure that Sarah Silverman is lying because we all know that no male tech is going to be placed in that kind of position to work with women. Management wouldn’t allow it. Yet female assistants and technologists dominate in medical positions for the intimate care of men. And we’re mocked and ridiculed when we request male only care-givers.
Sarah Silverman has always been a (wise-ass) in her TV interviews. While giving her the benefit of the doubt, its hard to believe her because of her demeanor on TV. Is this true? Or is it just one more of her smart-ass nature stories to up ratings and the press.. The only thing I have to say (with respect) is “Welcome to our world Sarah” where men go into the hospital, or have ultra-sounds, Dermatologist exams fully nude in front of 2 females, have to talk about intimate male issues with a female scribe jotting it down in our exams… and other areas and have a pretty hard time “not” seeing a female in his exam….. and then to boot, EXPECTED to be seen, looked at, given catheters, testicle exams, prostate exams, female chaperones and all, and not speak up…… you know… “You don’t have anything we haven’t seen before” attitude…. – – – then at the same time, they go to all female breast clinics, all female obgyn exams, and DEMAND not to be seen by males, and get their choice too!!!! Then I comment to a quote from above…… “Thankfully, many women came forward to support Sarah. Plenty of others have had an experience or an instinct that makes them feel more comfortable receiving these services from women” WELL…. GUESS WHAT….. MEN FEEL THE EXACT SAME WAY SARAH !!! ….. BUT WE DON’T GET THE CHOICE….. WE JUST GET MOCKED, AND MADE TO FEEL like “WE are the problem”!!! – – – and have the modesty issue….. Next time Sarah…. ask for a female…… you will SURLY get one, guaranteed… sonographers in ultra-sound areas and breast clinics are pretty much dominated by females. Don’t worry, you will not be mocked for asking for same sex technician.
Hell would freeze over before I ever allowed a male tech to do my mammogram. A man squishing my breasts in that barbaric excuse for an imaging test? Ummmm No.
Hello, I thought that I was alone in my feelings about being a male that preferred a Male Physician. I also thought that a physical for males, and or females were basically the same until recently. I spoke to a lady friend about having to wait in my underwear for an unreasonable amount of time, and in that time having my vitals taken by a female aid(in nothing but my underwear). She was shocked and asked me if that was normal. She also commented that she would never sit in her undergarments and allow a male to take her BP etc… it made me wonder If women feel the same.
Many years ago, I was having testicular pain, and swelling. After my gp examined me, he suggested that I get an ultrasound, and said that he was going to refer me to an ultrasound/radiology clinic. When I made the appointment, I requested that I have a male tech,I just felt a male would be a little more sympathetic to my uneasiness about having a testicular ultrasound. The women that I spoke with said she would note the request,but patients cannot be gauranteed a male/female tech. On my arrival, I was nervous, and sick to my stomach. I was lead to a row of changing rooms by a polite women, she handed me a long t shirt robe and instructed me to remove everything but my socks and put the long shirt on. I was then led to a a dark room and told to lay on the table and I was given a blanket. I waited about 20 minutes before the male tech arrived, he was not pleasant. I tried to explain that was a little nervous about what was going on, and he cut me off mid sentence and said to place a rolled towel between my legs and then lift the robe, exposing only the testicles. It was over quickly and I was out and dressed. When I had my follow up, with my Dr. he joked about the fact that I asked for a male tech, asking me if I was afraid of females in the medical field, making me uncomfortable. The next step was a referral to a Urologist, and he asked me in a a somewhat sarcastic tone if u needed a male urologist, to which I said yes(feeling embarrassed for now being more comfortable with a male examining me). I received a new patient information questioner (in the mail) that I filled out, and brought in on the day of the appointment. The women at the front desk was rude, loud, and didn’t have a problem telling each man loudly what his procedure was going to be, not being private at all.
She reviewed my information and proceeded to scold me for writing DNA to the prostrate segment of the papers(I was 36 and not there at all for a prostate exam), she said that I wouldnt be permitted to see the dr until the papers were filled out satisfactory. Again, I was led to an exam room and had my vitals taken( my bp was high due to my frustration with the front desk scolding). I was told to remove my pants and sit in wait in my boxers as the aid prepared a tray with gloves, lubricant, and adjusted the table. I told her that I would remove my pants on her exit, she shook her head and laughed a little, then left the room. At this point I wanted to leave. The Dr came into the room 30 minutes later, and saw me seated on the table, clothed. He talked to me about my symptoms, and then asked me to lower my pants, before I did so, I told him that I was not going to accept a prostate exam as I have no issues and I did not appreciate the receptionist and her attitude regarding the prostate info. He was indifferent, proceeded with testicular exam, and recommended surgery, which I had, and in the Operation room, I was one of two males present, the rest of the team were women( the anasthesiologist being the worst, and most aggressive when I said that I wanted an epidural instead of what she had planned for me, and didn’t call the days before like she was supposed to have done)My follow up/post surgical ultrasound was scheduled by the Dr, and I wasnt given a choice for a male tech. The day of the ultrasound I was wheeled into a big room and a femal tech came in, and explained the procedure and then said that if I was uncomfortable with it being she and I in the room, we could have a chaperone, but so I knew, the chaperone on duty was a female as well(the last thing I wanted to do that day was a testicular ultrasound, and to be exposed from the waist to my knees in front of anyone, let alone two clothed ladies)I opted out on the chaperone, and proceeded on with the ultrasound. She lifted the robe, exposing everything, she positioned the towel and lubricant and I just stared at the ceiling, after she finished, she cleaned me and removed the towel and lowered my robe, I felt like a child. Perhaps I’m just being sensitive, but I have avoided going back for the pain that has returned to my testicle, just to avoid dealing with the above incidents again.
Thank you for this post. I am by no means anti female, nurse etc.. I am simply a male that’s more comfortable with a male Dr, because if there are inssues below the belt, I feel like a male physician will possible have a better understanding of the equipment and how it works.
Mat, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you, or what you want in your exams, to help you feel more comfortable getting treatment. If you peruse the past posts, you will find that I too have endure a lot of what you describe. It is GOOD that you posted your feelings. To add to my story I have had 5 separate ultrasounds for cysts, and have always gotten a Female technician doing the exam. None brought in a chaperone. I didn’t ask, because I knew it would only make the discomfort for having a second female on-looker there. I’m pretty aware at this stage of the game its more to protect the female technician, than for my protection. -My protection? -Total bullshit. In any case, if you know for fact you will be seen by a female, be proactive. Don’t allow yourself to be placed into the situation of 2 females if you can avoid it. I recently had surgery at a major Hospital . I was told I will be getting a Catheter for the operation. Knowing full well, I would be greeted with 2 female nurses to do this procedure before I went in,. and that I 100% DESPISE catheters, and I wouldn’t subject myself to having them come in and announce out loud ( like they traditionally do) so everyone in the (double) room knows you are getting one..that I would be receiving a catheter today as per doctors orders, I demanded that part of it done in the surgery room, after I was put under anesthesia. I also demanded that it was taken out, before I woke up after the operation. My (male) doctor kept his word. More men need to speak up and bring awareness to Male modesty. Start speaking up, and talking back to people in the medical field that feel the need to bash men who want and demand their modesty. Glad you wrote to the forum. Dr. Linda is on to something here by providing a place for men to speak up.
Hi Matt:
Jim is correct there is nothing wrong with you. Since the rise of feminism back in the 60’s when they replaced male orderly’s (who took care of male specific intimate matters), with female nurse’s men and men’s healthcare needs have taken a back seat.
Dr. Girgis has been very gracious to give men a platform where we can exchange information and work together to make changes to a broken system. She’s one of a very few healthcare professionals who hasn’t lost her humanity to the “system”.
The medical community has long since forgotten that men like women are human beings also. Because they hold on to stereotypes that are from the 1950’s, they preach and practice that men have no modesty therefore, in their view, its okay to leave males unnecessarily exposed, gemale healthcare workers should do all male intimate care, and males should shut up and put up or no seek medical care.
Matt, at the urologist ofc when the receptionist was rude you said you spoke to the urologist. Did you also speak to the ofc. mgr.? There are also places online where you can post reviews.
Any time you feel uncomfortable with a medical situation, it is your legal right to stop and not proceed if you so choose. I myself have walked out on intimate related ultrasounds when I’ve been lied to and a female shows up instead of a male to run the test.
I have told my PCP anything male related and intimate in nature, I want to know before anything is scheduled so I can make some calls to be sure a male is available to do the test.
Unless men want to keep being treated like animals by the medical community, they will have to get over their fears of seeming to look weak and speak up loud and clear.
If you want same gender care, then ask for it. If they say they can’t or won’t accommodate you, tell them thanks you’ll take your healthcare needs to a facility that will accommodate your needs. When they see they are losing $$$ they will start changing things. I know some hospitals have cross-trained male radiologists to do ultrasounds so that their male patients can be accommodated.
The system is broke and it needs fixing. It’s time for male patient abuse to stop and for men everywhere to speak up and become part of the fix.
Regards,
John
John,
After all the exams, ultrasounds, the surgery, and post op exams, I was done dealing with my testicles being the subject of attention,and viewed every few weeks. I tried to put it all behind me, and not get worked up about it, it obviously left an impression though. I didn’t ever think to file a complaint, after the urologists lack of interest in my words with him. Like I said above, I thought that this is just how things are for all of us, male or female. I know that I have female friends that only see Female Gynocologists, that would never let a male do an ultrasound on them, or take their vitals while in their underwear. I even had a friend when I was younger refused to see a Gyno until she found a female Dr. It seems completely normal that we should be able to say, “No, for this exam, I want it to be a male Dr., LNP, Orderly etc…” to perform the task at hand, just like women is given the same choice and is respected for it. I understand that in the old days all Drs were men, and women had to be subjected to humiliating exams, but in the age of consent,choice, and respect for patients rights, it should not be once sided. Also with as many drs I have seen using tablets for their exam notes etc… I see no reason for their to be a scribe, voice memo apps are a good way to skip having another person in the room.
One more thing, I have observers brought into the exam room by drs after I am already in the room, it’s always been the kind of situation where the Dr brought them in, and then asked if I was ok with the exam being done in front of them. My answer has always been the same, “it’s fine, we aren’t doing a full physical”but of it involved the removal of my pants, i won’t allow it.
As a young man I was given a physical by an older female doctor who fondled my dick sans gloves until it started to get hard. Then she pulled down the sheet.
Today that would be called molestation and (if a man) would be required to register as a sex offender.
But I loved it.
Speaking up may be uncomfortable but it can result in change. A year+ ago in a couple posts I described my first even dermatology full skin exam experience. My request for male staff was met with hostility from the female staff and what amounted to being mocked by the doctor. Apparently men were supposed to be OK with standing there fully exposed while a female scribe and female LPN observed. It was made worse by a female staff member walking into the room literally just as I was finished undressing and was reaching for my gown. She knocked and asked if it was OK to come in. I loudly shouted no I’m not ready, and she just walked in on me anyway.
It took a couple rounds of elevating my complaint but I did get an apology and assurances some changes would be made. Fast forward a year and arriving for my appt. I ask for male staff. They still don’t have any but there was no hostility in word, action, or body language to my request nor to my asking to speak with someone about how my privacy will be respected. I indicated I knew a scribe was important to the doctor but that my privacy being respected was important to me, so how can we do this.
A woman promptly comes for me to talk in private and without me asking she assures me my privacy will be respected, that she’ll take care of it, and that the doctor is sensitive to this concern. She also said many other men have the same concern. Again no hostility in word, action, or body language.
After getting roomed the LPN that came to take history tells me without being prompted that she will stay out of the room and that the scribe will leave when it comes to the genital part of the exam. Yet again no hostility in word, action, or body language.
The doctor arrives with scribe in tow and his 1st words are that he doesn’t have any male staff but that my privacy will be protected. When it came time for the genital/rectal part of the exam the scribe didn’t leave but she turned away to not look. The doctor positioned me in a way that she couldn’t have observed anyway had she tried.
While it would be nice if they had some male staff I have no complaints about this visit at all. My privacy was fully respected. I can’t know if my complaint is what triggered these dramatic changes vs a year prior or if it was just one of several similar complaints, but they very much changed their approach to male patient modesty/privacy.
The way I am approaching things these days is to first ask for male staff. The near total female staffing dominance below the physician level means very often there just won’t be any male staff. When that is the case I then simply, calmly, and politely state that my privacy being respected is important to me, how is it we’re going to go about that. If nothing else they are on notice that I expect my exposure to be handled in a professional manner, that I not be exposed more than is necessary, for longer, or to more people than is necessary. In my example here today, an LPN wasn’t necessary to the exam and so she didn’t enter the room. It was not necessary that the scribe observe my genital exam, and so she didn’t.
Good Evening:
For some men and women both gender and orientation come into play when deciding same or opposite gender care. For others, the key is just gender or just orientation. Others have no preference.
No matter which one you decide, it’s all comes down to giving ALL patients a choice. There is no right or wrong. It’s what makes the individual most comfortable and gives he or she the best possible outcome from their ordeal.
To use terms the healthcare industry understands well, male patients need CPR. Choice, Privacy, Respect. The same CPR they freely gave women and girls over 50 years ago but have neglected to give to men and boys.
What we are asking is for all men, regardless of whether you want same gender caregivers or not, to stand shoulder to shoulder with your brothers that want the choice for themselves, their sons, fathers, and grandsons.
It’s time to level the gender scales in healthcare for the good of both men and women.
Regards,
John
What happened to many of us in the past should just further strengthen our resolve to put a stop to what healthcare and society has been doing to us, our sons, and grandsons today.
We can’t fix the past but we have an obligation, to do everything humanly possible, to fix what’s wrong today so our sons and grandsons aren’t treated like animals by a corrupt medical system tomorrow.
On a side note.
The lawyers and judges who claim our sons had the time of their lives and the women who abuse them can’t possibly be predators and/or pedophiles are just elected officials. Maybe it’s time society and the voters opens their eyes as to how little these elected officials care about our children and vote them out of office should they run again.
Your vote can send a powerful message when used right.
Now back to our dignity and privacy issues.
Nursing school nor the medical community teaches female employees to ask first. Because it’s all about the almighty dollar, they teach them to use pressure tactics to get the poor slob to cave in and do what they want so they get the dollars. They don’t want them going somewhere else.
Most of the American medical community talks the talk but they never walk the walk.
Patient-centered healthcare as it should be. Good morning Mr. Jones. How are you today? My name is Kathy Smith. I see from your records you are schedule for a procedure today that is male specific and intimate in nature. Sir, would you prefer the procedure be done in the presence of just male care givers or do you not have a preference?
That is part of a true patient-centered healthcare system.
The American healthcare systems version of patient-centered healthcare goes something like this.
Mr. Jones? If you’ll follow me please, we’ll get you squared away. At that point they tell him nothing, but, they are ready in the back for the ambush play.
If that’s the kind of system you want, just keep sitting on that couch with the beer in hand watching television.
If their version bothers you as much as it bothers me, then it’s time to rise up and say NO MORE.
We have rights but due to deceptive practices by the healthcare industry there were stolen from us over half a century ago.
They aren’t just going to reinstate them. We’re going to have to force the issue and take them back.
In order to do that you have to first stop running away from the issue every time you need to seek medical attention.
If you have a male related medical issue and you need to seek medical advice, go to your appointment and you stand up for yourself no matter what any self-centered female healthcare employee says to you. You know you have a voice, remember how when you were younger how your momma was always telling you to keep your mouth shut?
Well its time to use that voice.
I attend men’s support group meetings. I’m constantly hearing that it is what it is and it cannot be changed. Its either impossible to change it or they are afraid to change it out of fear of retribution from their current care provider (who for the most part are those loud mouth female healthcare workers), the ones that says you ain’t got nothing I haven’t seen before.
I’m here to tell those gentlemen that they are wrong. It is what it is, because YOU and YOU alone are allowing it to be that way.
You have the right to be treated first and foremost as a human being. A man should be treated with the same level of dignity and respect that the healthcare system has afforded their female patients for over 50 years now.
Retribution by any healthcare worker against any patient at any time is completely ILLEGAL and punishable by prison time. If someone does that to you, you get their name and you report them.
Nothing gentlemen is impossible (the word itself tells us that i’m possible).
This is something whose time has come. Our medical community should no longer be allowed to sweep this issue under the rug. Its time for them to join the human race this is 2018 not 1918.
I know from personal experience that its extremely hard to put your fears of what other people will think of you if you speak up aside. For your sake and that of your male children, you MUST bury them deep, lock those fears up tight, then throw away the key.
Tell your personal physician without exception, you want same gender caregivers for all male specific intimate exams, tests, or procedures.
Let your family know your wishes. If you hear about someone having problems tell them to speak up.
Write and/or talk to your elected officials and tell them the manor in which our healthcare system currently treats their male patients is completely unacceptable and to fix the problem, their rules, regulations, and methods must be changed as part of any healthcare initiative put forth for a vote. If you and/or your colleagues cannot or will not help ordinary citizens like myself make the necessary changes to a system that abuses male patients because you are hooked into the special interest groups, then I in turn, and everyone I talk to, will no longer be able to support you with my vote.
In hospitals these days doctors are called hospitalists.
A lot of times you’ll hear “we don’t have the staff” when in actuality they do.
If a man has to have say a catheter put in & he doesn’t want a female nurse doing it they will tell him “we don’t have a male nurse on staff”.
What’s wrong with making a male “hospitalist” do it? They certainly should know how to do it. Hospitals and their affiliates don’t want to spend money on hiring male nurses or hiring back the orderly’s so put the onus on the male hospitalists.
Stop lying about not having the staff. They do have staff they just don’t want to reallocate it.
There are ways to resolve these issues. Our healthcare system just doesn’t want to hear or talk about them.
It’s time for the public they serve to do the talking and for the medical community to do the listening.
When something isn’t right you speak up and say something.
There’s something wrong within our medical community, its time to SPEAK UP.
Guys if you don’t want to do it for yourself, think about all the embarrassment and humiliation your son(s) and grandson(s) will be put through by the system as it is today.
Do you really want to do that to your own flesh and blood?
Helen Keller once said “A bend in the road is not the end of the road…Unless you fail to make the turn.”
Make the turn guys, and let’s break down their wall once and for all.
Regards,
John
About a year ago my long time family doctor retired. I’d been going to him since I was nine years old. I’m 48 now. So I had to find a new doctor and I am shocked at how utterly uncaring these new clinics can be. I used my insurance providers website to find a clinic near home. Made an appointment and went in for my annual physical.
The young man who did the exam isn’t even a doctor. He’s a physician assistant. The questions were embarrassing. Won’t go into that unless someone wants to know.
When it came time for pvt parts exam I was asked to stand by the exam table and drop my pants and underwear to my ankles as he continued entering info on the tablet. Stood there like that a good 5 minutes.
Finally he swivels his chair around just as a female walks in to ask him what he wants for lunch. After a few awkward glances she says she’ll come back later. Like she finally figured out there’s a naked man standing there. I’m not even sure she was part of the medical staff or just a receptionist.
I miss the days of a pvt practice and a doctor who really knows his patients and not just a number.
I guess its the new American way but I dont like it.
Hi Eric:
It’s the new American way only because men refuse to stand up for themselves and speak out against what the the healthcare system is doing to men.
If guys aren’t going to speak up because they are afraid of what someone might think instead of “Hey that guy stood up for himself” nothing will change.
The system won’t change unless we do as the women did and speak up and keep doing it until they get the message.
Did you complain vigorously to the doctor and the office manager? File a grievance with the state. Put some heat on the doc for not training his people correctly.
Tell them their people need more training and that their should be a sign on the door when the doctor is with a patient so unless the doc calls an emergency, nobody enters the room while he’s with his patient without having a consequence like suspended without pay for two weeks.
The system as a whole needs to be re-taught and its up to us to train them. Just like the ladies did with the rise of feminism.
The old ways for gone.
Paying attention to male medical needs is the new American Way.
Regards,
John
Eric, what happened to you may have been poor training and poor procedures at that clinic, but there is a reasonable chance you were targeted. By that I mean the female staff member may have spotted you in the lobby or going into the exam room, and knowing how long the procedures typically take roughly knew when to use a pretense to come into the room for a quick look. You can’t prove that of course, but as John said in his response you can complain vigorously for the sheer lack of professionalism of a staff member walking into a room while an exam was underway. There is no way the PA or Office Mgr can defend what happened because proper procedure in any medical office does not allow staff to just walk in unannounced and uninvited. Odds are she has done that to other male patients that piqued her curiosity.
If you don’t complain that kind of behavior will continue. It was inexcusable. A male staff member that did that to a female patient would be fired.
This is becoming too partisan, like our politics have. Why does someone have to be YELLED at with capital letters if they disagree? I have no problem with modest men wanting all the rights that women are afforded in the settings described by all of you. I have no problem with less modest people having no issues with non sexual nudity in medical or even swimming/bathing settings. One side isn’t any more “right” than the other.
I am reminded of a good friend who grew up on a farm. He, his brothers and father were expected to get cleaned up in their swimming hole every summer day as dinner time approached. They stripped down, jumped in, washed up, got out, toweled off and put on some cleaner clothes handed to them by their mother or sisters. It was their way of life. We all come from different backgrounds. I will not try to convince you that mine is better than yours.
Tom, you have to remember some very basic things here. One, men and woman are different. We are not one and the same. If you look at the overwhelming majority of posts here, what men want the most is “CHOICE” of gender care, if they want it. They want to be told AHEAD of time, if a female will be a part of the exam. They want to be ASKED, if it is Ok to bring that female in, and they want RESPECT to their modesty and privacy. Most of the complaints here are just that… all to often men are subjected to ridicule, pressure, peer acceptance and all of it, and we are “expected” to adhere to those requests without question. All in a time where “All Female” obgyn clinics are popping up everywhere. Advertisements and roadside billboards stating “All female Breast Exams Clinics” yada, yada, yada. However men are expected to “Suck it up, yank our pants down without question, be treated third rate in exams where they are left exposed with little respect to modesty. The days you describe above are long gone. All I am saying is men need to stand up against medical bias. Men need the same gender treatment that is (demanded) by woman. If people want to go to a nude beach… they go willingly. Back in the days of “boys nude in school pools” in front of female coaches, and all of it….. Not all were willing, many were embarrassed, and they were “programmed” and forced into it by upper administration and bullied by peer pressure. This shouldn’t happen in modern medical settings. Men need to speak up. That’s the only way to get change to occur.
Personally, my level of comfort is affected much more by the ever-increasing number of people in the exam room than their genders. If I’m going to be naked in a room (exam or otherwise) and their are four fully-clothed people there looking, it’s going to be awkward…I don’t necessarily feel that it is any less uncomfortable for them to be male than female. I had a physical a couple of weeks ago and my PCP (male) had with him a female scribe and two female med students. Even during the mundane, non-intimate parts of the exam, I was rather uncomfortable talking about my personal issues in front of so many people. Thankfully, he waited until the very end to do the testicular exam and he sent the scribe away before. He also told me that if I was uncomfortable the med students could leave, as well. I did let them stay…I do realize that they need to learn and there is a perfectly valid reason for them to be there. I would have preferred them not to be, but it wasn’t a huge deal and I appreciate that the doctor gave me the option without me even having to voice an opinion on the matter. Had it been any other assistant or a “chaperone”, I would certainly not have allowed them to stay.
Fritz, it sounds like your doctor handled it well, though even better would have been to ask you before the medical students entered the room. For me I’d say that I far more readily accept being intimately exposed to female healthcare staff if they are the ones actually doing the exam or prep or whatever than their simply being an extra body in the room watching someone else do it. Being examined or prepped is a necessary function. Being watched is not. It makes me feel like my procedure has been turned into a spectator sport. That said I have been accommodating to medical students regardless of gender. Though I haven’t experienced it I think I would be less inclined to allow nursing or other types of students in as observers for intimate exams or procedures. It may not be fair but for me the relative educational level of the observer matters.
The real issue here is patient consent. Ask the patient before bringing someone into the room, or failing that ask immediately upon entering the room. Their saying something like “I hope you don’t mind” is not the same as asking in that it is kind of a passive aggressive way of putting you on the spot.
RU, you couldn’t have said it better…. If you read my earlier posts here, about my yearly physical and having to undergo a testicle check and prostate exam, with a Female Doctor (and a female nurse) who walked in to “be my chaperone” in the middle of the exam, and fully WATCHED everything, you will see why I agree with you. She could have been positioned, so my privates weren’t on display to the chaperone. The days of Female Doctors using the “AMBUSH” technique, with another female entering the exam, without asking, or consent, simply has to stop. Something has to be done in the training of Females in Healthcare, to give males better treatment. -Don’t just assume we are all accepting of it. WE ARENT.
“The real issue here is patient consent. Ask the patient before bringing someone into the room, or failing that ask immediately upon entering the room.”
That my friend is a crime what they did to you!
I use to have a male doctor all my life until a few years ago. He went to a hospital to work. The clinic I went to only had female providers left. I tried the MD out and didn’t care for her. So I turned to another provider, an NP who happen to be my supervisor, to see if she would be willing to be my provider. Well I started having male issues and was really nervous about even wanting to tell her. I manned up and I haven’t been disappointed. It didn’t seem like we were opposite genders. She never treated me as such either. So when my referral went out to be seen elsewhere I got the Male providers. I have never been so humiliated with the treatment from these male doctors. So my doctor put me in touch with the female providers and have gotten the best care and treatment than I ever gotten from the males. I was asked if they could bring in female students because of the way the male patients never want anyone else in room. I trusted these people that I told them it was ok to do so. May been uncomfortable but I got a lot of thank yous for being a good live patient to study and learn from. I don’t care but the treatment I got from the male versus female providers, I will take the female anytime and don’t care if anyone else is in room. They are learning the same thing I am. Helps us both out.
Good Afternoon:
First, I would like to sincerely thank our host Dr. Linda Girgis MD for being one of the few doctors in the healthcare industry that can see the issue we speak about and for giving us a place to voice our objections to what has and continues to happen to male patients in the system. She’s a diamond in the rough.
Next, let me apologize for the length of this response. That said.
Gentlemen, this nightmare we are experiencing began back in the mid 1960’s and early 1970’s.
Since the wake of the feminist movement from the 1960’s and 70’s, our American healthcare system has pushed the advancement of women’s healthcare at the expense of men’s healthcare.
Case in point, look at the amount of research dollars that are being spent annually on breast cancer as compared to prostate cancer.
Another telling sign is, look at the disparity that exists in the number of Women’s Health Care Centers that are staffed with an all-female staff to care for women’s needs only compared to Men’s Health Care Centers that are staff with an all-male staff to care for men’s needs only. The balance is tilted heavily in favor of women’s health care as you’ll find very few true men’s health care clinics in this country.
For those that were around at the time, you probably remember back in the 50’s and early 60’s hospitals had people who were called orderlies. These people had duties like assisting with problem patients, helping doctors with doing things like putting casts on patients, they transported patients to and from their rooms to various departments, they also shaved patients and provided other similar routine personal care, and they were also versed in setting up specialized hospital equipment such as bed attachments.
For the most part these people were men due to the physically demanding aspects of the work. They were replaced here in the U.S. by patient care assistants and Certified Nursing Assistants whose gender is better than 90% female. Orderlies are however still widely used in other countries.
Well, in the mid 1960’s and early 1970’s women didn’t like the direction healthcare was taking so they started raising their voices which led to the rise of feminism.
Originally, the healthcare system ignored the voices as they had a system in place and it worked for them. But that didn’t silence the voices. They got louder and louder. They got to the point where healthcare blinked and caved into their demands for dignity and better privacy. So how did they do this?
Remember those male orderlies who amongst other things shaved patients and provided other similar routine personal care to patients?
Well, healthcare executives, found out from their cracker-jack legal teams they could use what is called a BFOQ or (Bona Fide Occupational Qualification), exception to legally terminate the male orderlies and hire female nurses in their place. They saw two upsides to this maneuver. One, they would shut the feminists up at the time and two, they would save $$$$$$. With the government, they used the excuse the use of the exception was necessary for the normal operation of their business. They used the exception to effectively remove all male personnel from areas that were female patient intensive such as labor and delivery, and mammography. They further sealed off mammography by making sure no qualified male radiologist was ever trained in the art of mammography.
In laymen’s terms what they were then as they are still doing today, is nothing more than gender-bias and legal discrimination.
So, in effect our American healthcare system began trading men’s lives for the almighty dollar with this maneuver.
So, the healthcare industry quietly initiated the change and before men knew what had been done to them without them knowing or having a say in it, was they were all the sudden faced with a facility full of female healthcare workers doing a man’s standard and most intimate care and his only recourse he had then as today is don’t seek medical care.
What men should be asking is, at the time the plan to terminate all the male orderlies was implemented, what right did the executives, of the United States healthcare industry have to decide that men, were no longer worthy of basic human dignity and respect, and also, who gave them the right to make that choice, for another human being?
Also, gender-neutral is a joke the healthcare community has played on the American public long enough.
If the system were truly gender-neutral, women (who today freely go to male plastic surgeons and gynecologists), would have a qualified male radiologist to do their mammograms and/or qualified male nurses would be in labor and delivery assisting women with their deliveries.
Gender-neutral is a joke that needs to end now. There is NO SUCH THING in healthcare. Gender-neutral to them is when they are dealing with male patients only.
That gentlemen is how the American male patient got put into the position he’s in today within the American healthcare system. Not his fault, none of his doing. It’s all on the shoulders of greedy healthcare executives who were willingly and actively back then as today trading men’s healthcare needs in favor of feminism.
Feminism in America, has and is causing discrimination and oppression against males in the healthcare industry which in turn, has led to women’s health issues being privileged, at the expense of male healthcare.
So, how do men go about taking back what was stolen from them without their permission?
Before you start you must remember two important things.
Whether one’s personal preference is for either same-gender or opposite-gender medical care, a person’s choice should not only be respected by every other person whether they agree with them or not, but also be accommodated by all healthcare providers and their affiliates without question.
Reason I say this is, there are a lot of people (especially guys), who prefer opposite gender care for basic and intimate care needs. Many of them feel those that prefer same gender care are trying to take their preference away from them.
I unequivocally say here and now, that’s not what is being done. Nobody wants to take your preference away from anyone. Equality in healthcare delivery is thee one and only goal here.
The other thing to remember is that unlike an ostrich, the majority of our American Medical Assoc. and their affiliates, have their head buried so deep in the sand on this issue that an earthquake couldn’t shake it loose. It’s time to unbury your head and join the human race.
We are human beings first, patients second.
To any women that might read this let me also state unequivocally, “nobody is looking to take any healthcare benefits away from women”.
Women’s healthcare is far from perfect and continued investment is needed.
However, since the 1960’s and the rise of feminism in America, men’s healthcare issues have been ignored and now, a substantial investment is needed to change that situation.
So, what needs to be done?
Well for starters, in 1991 the U.S. congress established the Office on Women’s Health within the Department of Health and Human Services.
Twenty-Seven years later and men still don’t have an Office on Men’s Health within the federal government.
How about telling your elected officials to get off their duffs and get this office for men created? I think we’ve waited long enough. Your vote is a very powerful tool to use to get something done.
Next, let’s see medical institutions, schools, and nursing programs ramp up active recruitment programs so more men enter nursing, and technical school programs. Use incentives if necessary.
Nursing schools have classes graduating in excess of 15% males, some approaching 20%. Every male out of medical assistant school training should have a dozen job offers waiting. One of the main reasons you don’t see more men being hired is due to women doing the hiring, you have Gender-Bias at play and its running rampant in the hiring sector.
There is NO room for feminism or gender-bias in healthcare. The medical community should take both of them and bury them in a hole as deep as the one you currently have your heads buried in forever.
What can we do in the here and now?
Start open, candid, discussions between the general public, healthcare people, and the federal government on changes that can be made within the healthcare system to better respect a man’s dignity and protect his privacy the same way the system has protected women for decades. If healthcare backs away from these discussions, then the federal government should issue mandates compelling them to work with the male population and come up with a solution that everyone can live with. There is no reason why a man cannot have the same level of privacy that a woman has where gender specific intimate medical issues are in play.
There has to be compliance and there has to be penalties with teeth in them if the American public is to believe the healthcare industry is serious about changing their ways. No more slaps on the wrists with suspensions.
Medical institutions, and clinics, and doctor’s offices, should replace female caregivers with male hospitalists or nurses for all intimate related male medical care if the patient chooses such care. For example, Ireland uses male hospitalists to do male urinary catheterizations. In our patient-centered healthcare system, that’s not costing the industry any extra dollars and you are giving the effected male patients the best possible outcome you can give them. Remember no cost and happy patient.
Next, in diagnostic x-ray, sonography or ultrasonography you could at little to no cost, cross-train male radiologists in this area so as to afford men who want same gender care for their intimate scans the ability to have them done by males instead of females.
You know first-hand the psychological effect beforehand of having a female healthcare worker involved with a male patient going through an intimate exam, test, or procedure so that begs the question, why do you deliberately embarrass and humiliate the guy when all you had to do was replace her with a him? Voyeurism may be the answer to that question.
The one area that both male and female patients are concerned with is hospital clothing. For years, medical personnel have worn the latest medical attire while at the same time patients have been stuck in the past wearing a johnny gown from the 1950’s or earlier that offers no protection of a patient’s dignity or privacy.
There are companies out there (none of which I have any affiliation with), that make medical garments for exams, tests and surgical procedures so if the genital area is not the focus of the procedure, test, or exam, the patient’s dignity and privacy are protected while at the same time giving medical personnel access to the affected area.
One specific garment that comes to mind is called a bilateral medical garment. It has a retractable front panel for patient preparation and procedural access. It provides complete access to both the groin and hip regions and features a completely retractable front panel for patient preparation and procedural access.
A garment like this would keep the patient’s dignity and privacy intact as they would put it on beforehand in private at take it off after in private. Staff would have the access they need while keeping the patient privates away from prying eyes. Think hip or knee replacement and cardiac catheterization lab. There’s no need any more to pull someone gown off and embarrass and humiliate them so your prep is easier. If that happens, then the person doing it must have ulterior motives as a bilateral medical garment will give you enough access and protect their privacy at the same time.
This is an area of change whose time is well overdue in coming.
Those are just a few examples of areas where change is needed to bring the American healthcare system better in tune with the people they serve.
We all know that change within our medical community comes at a snail’s pace and not without pushback.
Sometimes, change is a good thing. This, is one of those times. The time for ignoring and burying this issue must end and change must now move forward.
Okay guys. Healthcare now knows the kinds of changes we are looking for but, those changes are NOT going to come cheaply.
Now its your turn. ALL males that want same-gender care for intimate related medical issues please raise your hands now.
Now, the first thing you gentlemen can do to help yourselves is at your next visit with your personal physician, in the privacy of the exam room, let your doctor know that for ANY intimate related exam, test, or procedure they feel you may need, you REQUIRE they provide only male personnel be present. Let them put that in your medical record so that they are aware if they need to schedule something that’s intimate related, they need it to be with male care-givers only. Make it perfectly clear while you are talking that you want the entire who, what, when, where, and how of any test or procedure they want done. Tell them leave nothing out. More often than not they won’t tell you who’s involved because you might decline to have the test or procedure. For instance, you need a scrotal ultrasound. Most ultrasound technicians are female but they won’t tell you that because they know you value your dignity and privacy so you might choose not to go. They’d rather you get ambushed after your pants are off and your laying down on the exam table with a paper-thin sheet covering your privates when a 20 something young lady walks in to do the testing. At that point most guys are too embarrassed and freaked out to say anything so the test proceeds and you come out of it completely embarrassed and humiliated. But they got their test done!
Okay, you’ve told your doctor now gentlemen you are going to have to find a way to put your fears, egos, and pride aside and start speaking up in a LOUD AND CLEAR voice that you want male care-givers whenever an intimate related medical situation arises and you are NOT comfortable with female care-givers providing your care.
That means things like assistance with a bath or showering, urodynamics and uroflow evaluation, urinary catheter placement and removal, prostate biopsy, prostate cancer treatments, BPH, enemas, peyronie’s disease, cystoscopy, transrectal prostate ultrasound, trans-perineal prostate biopsy, scrotal ultrasound, bladder issues, and vasectomy to name a few.
These situations are just so privacy-invasive that even if female staff were the brightest and nicest people in the world, and followed all the necessary steps, they still are not going to be respecting your dignity in any way known to mankind. It would be like putting a male nurse with a woman going through breast cancer treatment.
Something our medical community would never think of doing. But yet, they do it to men ALL the time.
Regardless of what the patient may think, our ignorant medical community would still say without a doubt, that the male patient’s dignity was well respected.
There are simply times when being polite to a patient is just not enough!
No amount of sensitivity training, experience, or education will allow any healthcare worker of the opposite sex the ability to truly empathize with a patient of the opposite gender no matter how hard they try.
All it may do and usually does is further alienate the patient and, destroy the patient/provider bond that needs to be there now more than ever due to the patient’s current circumstances.
That means gentlemen, if you really want change to happen, you MUST BE WILLING TO SPEAK UP AND STAND YOUR GROUND ALL THE TIME! in any and all medical situations.
In the legal field they have a principal “equal justice under the law”. “No one is above the law, and no one should be treated differently or disproportionately,” regardless of “who he or she is or who he or she was.”
Take that principal and apply it to healthcare.
“Gender EQUALITY in healthcare” means.
NO gender is better than another.
No woman shall be treated any differently or disproportionately than any man,” regardless of “who he or she is or was.”
So, write your elected officials in Washington. Use the power of your vote and tell them its time to put a choke collar with sharp points on it around the necks of all the lobbyists, insurance companies, and big pharma people and reign them in.
This is supposed to be of the people by the people, for the people. Tell them you want change. Your vote is a powerful weapon when used correctly.
In closing let me say that the days when healthcare could do everything in secret on their own, and in their own way are over. The social contract medicine once had with society has been breached by the medical community and the public is opting out now in favor of complete transparency by the healthcare industry. If healthcare institutions are not going to be cooperative and forthcoming, then they will leave the American paying public no choice but to demand congress mandate new rules and regulations on the industry to bring about compliance.
It’s the new way of doing business in America.
People pay a lot of their hard-earned money on healthcare premiums. It’s about time they got a say for all they pay.
Regards,
Well said John. Being polite is not synonymous with being respectful, just as what is convenient for the staff is not synonymous with what is truly necessary.
John, I wanted to give you, and the rest of the readers a heads up on something else that has effected men (and boys) back in the 60s, and 70s, and where I believe some of the “lack of attention” to boys and men’s modesty began. Did you know that boys were FORCED and REQUIRED, by Boards of Education, to swim NUDE in Public Schools and YMCAs? It is true. Did you know that some of their instructors, were “female? Did you know that Mothers of the time, actually made their boys swim nude, so sisters, cousins, and neighbor girls could view?… to “satisfy the Curiosities” of girls? Did you know the other female coaches, would make excuses, to deliver towels to the pool when boys were swimming, so they could “view” the boys? and Girls would peak in at them too. Here is a very interesting website, that will knock your socks off in how BOYS were treated. All the while Girls were ALWAYS allowed to keep their dignity, and wear swim wear. This movement was nothing more and a secret (female led) idea, to educate girls about boys bodies, while not allowing boys to do the same. Even the “great” Ann Landers columnist of the time was “Pro – Nude- boys” in school….She was sick as well to say the boys had the problem, when they complained about being nude in school. For anyone who might wonder how this area of treating men like crap in their exams started…. you NEED to read a lot of the information gathered here. Might just make you angry as you read. This is how boys were treated. No wonder the attitude towards men has been the way it has been all these years in the Healthcare system !!!!! Dr. Linda, You own it to the men here to allow this to be printed. They deserve to know. Perhaps some of the older fellows who post here were actual victims of the period. This effected a lot of boys, and some men even to today. Comments welcome! SEE:
https://sites.google.com/site/historicarchives4maleswimming/home/archives—mid-20th-century-to-current/news-articles-and-columns
Jim, the public schools where I grew up didn’t have pools and my family couldn’t afford for us to belong to the YMCA but then in Sept. 1971 I went off to a college where the boys were required to take a general fitness test and swimming test. Phys. Ed. was mandatory for freshman year and if you failed one of those tests you were assigned to remedial classes rather than being able to choose your phys. ed electives.
I show up (with bathing suit in my gym bag) at my assigned time for the tests during orientation and its only then for the 1st time that I find out the swimming test is in the nude. It was not mentioned anywhere in the instructions or in their general literature. There were no girls present, students or staff. In fact the girls did not take fitness or swimming tests and did not have mandatory phys. ed. at all. The odd part was that this was a brand new state of the art facility. They weren’t managing ancient filters such as I have seen written as an excuse for this practice.
We were made to stand in a very long line of naked guys just waiting our turn to do the test one at a time. No towels were provided to wrap around ourselves while waiting our turn nor towels when we got out of the pool after the test. It was walk naked from the locker room, wait in line, take the test, and walk back to the locker room naked. We were not allowed to bring our own towels either. Everything had to be left in the locker room. No matter what their reasoning was for no bathing suits allowed in the pool, the rest of the process didn’t need to be as demeaning as it was.
I easily passed the fitness test but failed the swimming test and was assigned to a remedial swimming class for the 1st quarter. That too was in the nude and again no towels were allowed outside of the locker room. We weren’t allowed in the water either until the instructor told us to get in the water so there was always a period of standing by the side of the pool in the nude too.
Of course back then we were raised to not question authority and to do as we were told so nobody complained and interestingly none of my roommates or new friends even discussed it. I imagine the others, like me, had already been socialized through school and sports physicals that guys were not supposed to have any modesty nor any expectation of bodily privacy, so we all “manned up” pretending that it didn’t bother us. For most guys that manning up continues as they navigate the healthcare system.
It was very empowering for me to finally find my voice and start speaking up. To those guys that haven’t found their voice yet I say don’t tolerate the female schedulers and others who try to embarrass or bully you when you ask for a male sonographer, nurse, CNA etc. for an intimate procedure. You don’t have anything they haven’t seen, you don’t have anything special, are you afraid of women, we’re all professionals here, we have no modesty here etc. Tell them what their attempt at embarrassing or bullying you was offensive and inappropriate. They’ll be shocked that you pushed back. The reality may be that there simply is no male staff available, but even then you can demand that your exposure be minimized as to what is exposed, how long it is exposed, and to whom it is exposed. Scribes, medical assts, young female trainees, and other observers can be told to leave the room. You can demand you be kept covered while they gather their supplies, and promptly covered up again when the procedure is over. You can demand that the towel be placed over your genitals before the gown is lifted for an exam that doesn’t involve your genitals. Remember that though much of your exposure may be more convenient for them, it is not truly necessary. They don’t need to expose your genitals at all in order to examine your abdomen for example, yet when all you are wearing is a gown, they think nothing of lifting the gown and then placing a towel to cover you. Demand the process be reversed. You can and should have a say in how your exposure is handled.
What you describe here happened quite frequently in those days, but I don’t think that the motivation, ie, satisfying female curiosity about male anatomy, was the main driver. Rather, I think that the psychology was that girls are not really stimulated by the sight of undressed males, whereas boys are extremely stimulated by viewing the nude female. Actually, there may be some legitimacy to that concept, but anyway the result was that girls were strongly encouraged to cover up modestly but it was not really a concern if the boys were covered or not. Therefore, boys could go swimming or be undressed for any reason and it wasn’t a big deal, although sometimes they went through the motions. For example, at Boy Scout camps in the 1950’s, we mostly went swimming without bathing suits, but there was almost always the den mothers, camp nurses, lifeguards, etc. as well as the occasional sister tagging along or visiting, and it was never a big deal, rarely even mentioned.
Carl, I would disagree with you here. It would be like you are saying that girls are not sexual beings. Girls-woman are just as much sexual creatures as boys. And I am willing to bet among the woman and girls who were openly allowed to view those boys in the pools of the time, Some, if not more, than you would suspect, REALLY enjoyed the scenery and LOVED IT. Why else are there multiple accounts of female coaches making “excuses” and finding reason to enter the pool areas? Tell me why swim trunks for boys, could not be made of the same materials as afforded to girls? My point is, not everyone shares your concept of being nude in front of woman, sisters, cousins, mothers and even classmates of the same age as those boys were subjected to. There were a LOT of VERY embarrassed boys, who if given the choice would have chosen swimming trunks and were FORCED to go nude. Men and boys DO HAVE modesty, and for those of us who do want to be covered up, should be given the respect and choice to do so. Today, in the modern medical setting, men STILL have to fight for the right to modesty and privacy, and more effort needs to be made by the medical community to provide SAME GENDER CARE for those who demand it. I wouldn’t play down the era of boys swimming naked in pools. Those boys, in my opinion were abused. If by todays standards that was attempted, there would be a lot of school faculty sitting in jail. Forcing a person to be naked… to be placed on display for the viewing pleasure of others is wrong. It was wrong then, and it is now. Same thing in a medical exam, when woman are present, and men are blatantly exposed while woman are present in the room, and no effort is made to cover him up. The old biased approach of “woman should get more respect to privacy”, and same gender care, and men don’t need privacy, needs to go. Ask woman if they would mind a trans-dural ultrasound, with 2 males present. A male tech doing the exam, and a male chaperone watching it all in full view. Most would say hell no. However the opposite happens all the time, and woman who do the exams expect the men to suck it up and accept it. More men need to speak up and demand change
Men have plenty of reason to worry. This isn’t your father’s world any more. Aggressive females, false rape allegations, demonization of men, especially white men. My recent, personal medical experiences leave me with a deep distrust of female nurses, aides and techs and the male doctors that allow the continued dehumanization and humiliation of their male patients.
Jim, I didn’t mean to imply that boys were forced to go nude, although I guess there was peer pressure. It seems that in some cases males are raised with little concept of modesty. I remember that as high school baseball players, a friend of mine and I stopped at his house after practice. My friend undressed for a shower, and his mom brought clean towels. After my friend was done, he made no effort to cover up; his mother apparently saw nothing unusual in the fact that he didn’t get dressed. I think you overestimate the amount of sexual stimulation that women get from seeing male nudity. Mostly just curiosity at first, if they are not used to it, I am told, particularly in a non-sexual situation. Perhaps you have a point if the observed male is in a visibly aroused state. Also, you are so right that much of the behavior that went on in the 50’s and 60’s would not be accepted today.
There in it Carl, you said the golden sentence…. ” It seems that in some cases males are raised with little concept of modesty.” – – Why were they raised that way? Answer: So that when it came time for them to be asked to show their goods, in open view around pools, they would think its the way its always been done, and therefor mothers or schools would get little resistance from boys when required to go nude. Sort of a ‘programmed desensitization for boys” – – But of course girls always need to be proper and stay covered. Carl, I don’t believe that woman are not stimulated. The girls only look, to satisfy their curiosities? However boys curiosities were never addressed? Tell me why when grown woman (female teachers) for example, only get a minimal sentence, as compared to a man when they have sex with under-aged boys? Its often said in society that “He enjoyed it, despite the fact that he was a minor, and cannot consent to sex. Or, its thought of that Woman cannot be a rapist or pedophile. I don’t buy it Carl. I think its just how society has been “bent” to perpetuate that Men are highly sexual, and woman are not. That’s hogwash. In any Case, keeping this on subject, men need their modesty and privacy addressed, if they ask for it. And even if they don’t ask for it, it should already be programmed into any female regardless of her medical position in a hospital or exam that men deserve the same rights as woman get. See a few of these links and you will see what I am talking about above. I think the era of Boys swimming nude, is not far off from how they are treated today. As female nurses say – “You don’t have anything we haven’t seen before” all pressure tactics, to make the male submit to getting nude”. Lets see a male doctor or male nurse try that with a female patient, and see how far he gets…..
https://www.thestar.com/amp/opinion/star-columnists/2018/10/25/court-says-pedophilia-does-not-apply-because-perpetrator-is-a-woman.html and https://nationalpost.com/health/women-nearly-as-distressed-as-men-over-compulsive-sexual-urges-and-behaviour-study-finds
I don’t understand the point of view of many on this forum. If, for some reason, you dislike the possibility that females are somehow enjoying the sight of your male sex organs, why do you not fear the very real possibility that the male medical personnel that you claim to prefer are homosexuals who would similarly be aroused? This is an obvious inconsistency, and there are others which I will point out in subsequent posts.
In response to Carl’s comment, there is no inconsistency at all. Starting in 6th grade and continuing through 12th there was mandatory gang showers after gym. There was mandatory swim class in the buff my 1st year of college. For most of my adult life I changed and showered in gym settings. I am 100% guaranteed there were gay guys present in those settings. Never once did any guy make me uncomfortable in those settings or somehow sexualize showering, dressing, or swimming. Never has any male doctor or male staff member in a medical setting made me uncomfortable nor have any ever sexualized exams or procedures.
On occasion female healthcare staff have sexualized what should have been strictly clinical exams and procedures. That is the difference. Female staff that are so inclined know they can get away with it because most guys are too embarrassed to complain. Having experienced it more than once I now choose to avoid female staff for any intimate exposure matter whenever I can. Avoidance is the path of least resistance. Hospitals take swift action if a male staff member is accused of something, not so much if it is a female staff member. The double standard is alive and well.
Homophobic men that avoid male caregivers by that very fact see healthcare in sexual terms. I don’t see healthcare as sexual at all, and thus could care less what any caregiver’s orientation is, male or female. It is the behavior of some female staff members that I object to and choose to avoid. Healthcare looks the other way when it comes to infractions of a sexual nature on the part of female staff.
In response to RU and Carl, I too immediately picked up on homophobia in Carl’s comment, and some sexualizing in his preference for female caregivers. A male who is attending to me has in his pants exactly what I have. I don’t know, nor care, what may be going on in his head when he is with me, but a female is, without a doubt, taking notice, comparing and will likely comment on to close associates, which I have known first hand to happen on many occasions. If a male who sees me exposed and has some sexual thoughts, he is almost for sure not going to share those thoughts and observations to anyone else.
I believe very strongly in being faithful to my wife, so I avoid situations where my own thoughts and fantasies may lead me to reconsider my fidelity. It’s what may be going on in my own head when I leave the doctor’s office after I’ve been nude in the presence of an attractive female that concerns me as much as my own modesty.
I remember my fathers friend telling he, and I that he had to swim naked for P.E., this was done to ease our worries about the whole use of school supplied swimsuits, and the required 4 weeks of swimming. Showering in 7th, and 8th grade was required for us to receive a passing grade, we were given the “You all have the same plumbing” speech by the instructors on the first day of school. I always felt a little weird about it when a non PE related teacher would come into the boys locker room to speak to the coaches while there was a shower room full naked minor males, they were never female, but still it was treated as if it were no big deal, we’re all guys here ,and this how guys are. As for the idea that boys should be naked in front of there sisters,and friends is a very odd one. I have never heard of one or several girls being made to swim naked to satisfy the curiosity of their clothed brothers, friends, and a father. That would also never fly in these times( for either sex).
Being a child born to hippies, we all bathed together. My Dad,Mom,me, and my sister. It was never gross, or perverse, and we were never put on display for anyone’s curiosities. There’s something really strange to me about that. I also maintain that it should be completely ok to request a male for exams that are private in nature if we do choose.
I spent aprox 1 week in a Newcastle Australian hospital John Hunter I was embarrassed by 2 nurses first I had been showing on my own for 4 days when this nurse took me to shower she remains in the shower area while I shower and watches me. the second account I requested to go for toilet break early one morning the nurse brought me a bottle to pee in and stood by my bed and stared whilst I proceeded to put my penis in the bottle and pee I was extremely embarrassed by both there actions.
Been battling with the medical board about a urologist who would not give his male patients any gowns or any cover for modesty! He left doors open and patients will enter by mistake while I was totally exposed! I tried to cover my self with a shirt and he will tell me that I did not need it and took it away from me! He did vitals and everything while I was totally exposed and the worst part was having me on a catback knee chest position on top of the medical bed! I reported him to the Puerto Rico medical board and went through two years waiting for the result of the complaint! They said that medical literature states that gowns interfere with the exams and that men can be totally expose and that the urologist can perform the physical exam as he sees fit! Also they accepted the doctors advice that I should have told him ahead of time that I was molested as a kid then they would have modified the exam for me! The board sided with the urologist and said he did nothing wrong! They only recommended him to have a chaperone even though he refused one for me. No justice in Puerto Rico and the medical board is corrupt and has no empathy for male modesty only for women and if you were abused they won’t care! I am at a lost and have ptsd and went to a psychward for this! I cannot deal with this injustice! Ibam trying other routes or legal means but my mental sanity is exhausted. I only wanted the board to make him give his male patients the option of wanting a gown if they chose to and they denied me that !
Damian, just HORRIBLE………..when will the world Medical field wake up???? – – – I think the answer is to “walk out of procedures”. Tell them, “when you respect my body, modesty, and dignity, as much as you would respect a woman, in the same procedure……… then and only then……will I return for services. It is no wonder MEN die, rather than be subjected to such disrespect.
The only positive to this is that after going through months of therapy… I now have the courage to speak up! I now know my patient rights and I now know to ask and walk out if the Doctors do not comply! I went for a period of time blaming myself trying to figure out why I did not speak up at that time! I was frozen in that unfortunate moment! I now know I can speak out because I do not want this to happen ever again to myself nor anyone else! Speaking up is the most important part in preventing this from happening! I just graduated as an RN and I make it my goal to promote and protect my patients modesty and dignity on a daily basis!
In my opinion: About 4 years ago I went to a urologists for a procedure. His young nurse was HORRIBLE. She was arrogant, rude, she did everything possible to try and humiliation and embarrass me. She disclosed confidential medical information about my illness and treatment within hearing range of other staff members and patients. As a result I posted numerous poor ratings for this doctor and his clinic. 4 years later I’m still angry and I still post! I would encourage every man that was disrespected to give a BAD review on several websites to end our abuse!
The bodily privacy argument also applies to cross-gender supervision in prisons, sports journalism and the military. In all cases, men are routinely discriminated against.
The only way this abuse will stop is if doctors and hospital profit margin is affected. Start giving bad reviews: Always be factual and add “In my opinion” so you will not have any repercussions. About 4 years ago I went to a urologists for a procedure. His nurse was HORRIBLE. She was arrogant, rude, she did everything possible to try and humiliation and embarrass me. She disclosed confidential medical information about my illness and treatment within hearing range of other staff members and patients. As a result I posted numerous poor ratings for this doctor and his clinic. I would encourage every man that was disrespected to give a BAD review on several websites to end our abuse!
Hi Jim & welcome.
Another way would be for ALL men to start speaking up in one voice that we’ve have enough of doing this healthcare’s way. The healthcare system made changes that favored women (one of which was no male techs in mammography), so it’s time the system made changes to accommodate men and without all the excuses.
Men unlike women don’t speak up when they are in uncomfortable situations. They are by nature afraid of showing weakness (even though in this case it’s no sign of weakness at all), so they go to their appointment and sometimes wind up coming away from it totally embarrassed, humiliated, and mad at themselves for NOT speaking up when they had the chance.
Then there’s the other group of men that want absolutely nothing to do with a male nurse, assistant where intimate care is concerned and that’s perfectly okay.
Not wanting to speak up because it’s part of the “macho code” to being a man and not wanting to speak up because your afraid you might get stuck with a “male” nurse is hurting ALL men.
If WE EVER want to effect change to the American healthcare system in the manner that women have done for decades, WE have to speak TOGETHER in ONE voice sending ONE message.
If you prefer opposite gender care for intimate related male issue just SPEAK UP and tell them. Same goes for those that want same gender care.
The time to strike on this issue is NOW. If men continue to sit on their laurels and do nothing, you are condemning your son(s), grandson(s), and their male offspring to the same fate as you suffer today.
Talk you your family, friends, neighbors, and ask them, “has the men in their family been humiliated by the healthcare system lately?” Talk/write to your local hospital administration and ask what their policy is for men wanting same gender care for intimate issues. Ask them do male hospitalists step in when a male nurse is unavailable?
Finally, talk/write to all your elected officials and tell them the healthcare system accommodated women’s requests for change in the past. Now men want changes made to better protect their dignity and privacy. Let them know if they can’t or won’t help get the changes made then maybe they are NOT the ones we should have in our elected offices.
Send them a clear message, help us or GET OUT OF THE WAY!
It’s up to US now. Are WE going to DO something about this situation, or just keep whining about it and allow them to embarrass and humiliate US further?
Regards,
John
A catheter removal does not have to be a big deal. No one has to expose or touch you to remove a catheter. You can keep your boxer shorts on, any loose garment or hospital gown. You can be in the sitting or standing position, the balloon can be deflated and the catheter will just fall out. I had this done after my surgery. You can even remove it yourself using a scissors (see Youtube video). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNWGrE7wvw I think many caregivers want to deceive, humiliate and control you. I have had a number of misandrist (man hater) caregiver in my lifetime.
If you want to read about my nightmare story go to. http://www.yananow.org/display_story.php?id=1659 It also address privacy issues too.
Hello Jim J.
I read your story. I’m sorry you were put thru all that and I hoe things are better now.
Over on the Patient Dignity (Formerly:Patient Modesty):Volume 99
https://bioethicsdiscussion.blogspot.com/2019/05/patient-dignity-formerlypatient.html
We are attempting to find a way to organize as that’s the only way we will ever get the message out where the general public knows there’s a problem that needs to be discussed and acted upon.
Too many men are walking away from needed healthcare and most of the medical community could care less or they would have found a way by now to support male patients who want their privacy where intimate issues are concerned.
It can’t be that hard to cross-train a male radiologist to do male related ultrasounds. I know of a hospital that did it. There is also no reason a male hospitalist can’t step in when a male nurse is unavailable.
Healthcare just doesn’t want to do it unless congress legislates it.
So if you want to drop by & read some of what’s going on be our guest as we are on volume 99 of this issue.
Regards,
John
Hi Jim:
I’ve read & re-read your story. As far as “A patient’s dignity (or lack of dignity):” would you say that a man’s ordeal would be less stressful if he had male caregivers instead of a sea of females if he so requested them?
Stories like yours and the others must get out into the public’s eye so they can see just how bad men are treated.
Because of the stigma attached to being seen as weak, too many men won’t speak up and just say no we’re not gonna take it anymore.
A court case for most is out of the question as men won’t make a public spectacle of themselves.
The medical community knows and counts on this to be able to get away with all they do to men.
We need to put this issue out there and soon before any more men decide treatment isn’t worth the abuse & just walk away.
Hope you’re doing well.
Regards,
John
All humor has truth in it. Most men would feel as Archie Bunker does in this situation.
Even if I spoke the language I wouldn’t find this very funny.
I recently had an experience in which I had a female dermatology PA removing moles from my back. A female medical assistant (MA) was in the procedure room looking at her computer. I asked her directly what her role was she responded that she was on “gauze patrol”, which I found to be an unsatisfactory answer, especially in light of the fact that she was no where near the PA who was getting ready to do the procedure. My response was “Ah’. Within a minute the PA correctly told the MA that she did not require her assistance and sent her out of the room to another assignment. My rule is that no one is in the room during a medical procedure or meeting unless their participation is required. She was not happy with the dismissal. Perhaps she will be less cavalier and respectful of a patient’s privacy the next time.
Gee, what’s the problem? As a man, I prefer females for all exams! I actually feel more comfortable with them.
Me too. It’s more natural.
Here is a small success story as a result of speaking up. This was at a very large dermatology practice at a large teaching hospital.
In making my first ever appt. for a dermatology exam I asked that only male staff accompany the doctor in the room. I was told that a scribe and nurse would be present and that they only have females in those positions. When I objected to that I was talked down to in a condescending tone implying there must be something wrong with me. Come the day of the appt. I tell the nurse that was to be in the room that I only wanted males. I get a look like what’s wrong with me from her but she politely says only the doctor will come in then. The doctor comes in and his first words are “You have a problem with women? Is it (and he shakes his hand at my genitals). I tried telling him modesty but he wasn’t interested and did not do a full exam.
I follow up with a letter to the Head of Dermatology. A month goes by with no response. I send a letter to Patient Relations. A couple weeks later with no response I stop by their office when I had to be at the hospital for another reason. That forced someone to talk to me and fortunately I got a very empathetic woman. She brought the matter to the practice manager, a woman in charge of dermatology and a couple other depts at the hospital.
The end result was that protocol now allows for men to ask that no women be present for their full skin exams. I went back for another appt. with a different doctor this time, and received a proper exam from him without being hassled or treated rudely.
Things can change if we are willing to speak up, embarrassing as it might be speaking up, but we have to do it.
Now that is a great success story! Sorry you had to go through that embarrassment to get the but glad that you speaked up.
Regardless of what I might have said previously, I do recognize that there is a double standard regarding nudity, which extends to medical settings. Last week I had diagnostic procedure, something that I have been having for the past 35 years, with the same doctor and his (female) nurse. While I was getting dressed, the nurse came in to chat. As usual, I took off my robe and got dressed as we continued to talk, mostly about the death of a surgeon we both knew well. On the way home, it occurred to me that for at least part of the time, I was completely undressed, but that had been the case for decades, so I asked my wife if she thought that was a bit odd. She replied that perhaps, but that had been the the way it was always done before, and that the nurse probably considered me as an old friend. So I asked if she thought it would’ve been the same situation had the nurse been male and I female and the answer was “probably not— no way, particularly these days.” I don’t think that I would even think about this issue very much before encountering this blog. There are many other examples that I could cite, but I’ll save them for another time. One very obvious conclusion is that things like nudity are very much more dicey these days, but I’m showing my age I guess.
My urologist was about to give me a rectal exam, I said I did not want the nurse to be present,He said she
‘s new and she has to be present or there will be no exam.I walked out, can I report this to the Nj state medical board
Wow! You can report it but I doubt anything will be done about it. Most doctor practices grown (or destruct) by word of mouth. Spread the word!
Good for you. If it’s not life or death and it makes you uncomfortable you don’t have take it. I walked out of Cleveland Clinic Weston Florida over similar circumstances. They couldn’t believe I wouldn’t be forced into allowing intimate care by female nurses. Went to UM where they were happy to accommodate me. You can usually find other doctors that will accommodate your requests.
It’s considered a provider’s right to require a “chaperone” for exams or procedures. You as the patient have the right to refuse the spectator, but the provider is under no obligation to honor your request. Your only option at that point is to do what you did and leave. From all I’ve heard and read, it’s unusual for a male provider to insist on a “chaperone” with a male patient. My PCP has recommended that I stay with male providers for that reason, in fact.
My policy is to have an “establish care” consultation with a new provider, in which I bring up the “chaperone” issue before any exams or procedures are performed. It’s less expensive to try and find out a provider’s policy from office staff, over the phone, but in my experience it’s more effective to have that conversation in person with the provider.
Dr Girgis, I tried to post my story here and twice, it was rejected as a suspected bot. The third time, it seemed to go through, but I don’t see it here. Can you please tell me if you got it? Thank you.
Hi Steve! I just found it in my spam folder and will approve it now. Not sure why that happened. Thank you for sharing your story. Dr. linda
Thank you!
Dr Girgis,
I am a patient at a large hospital in Renton, WA. My story is a long and complicated nightmare, but I will say that for the 18 years I’ve been coming here for treatment of cellulitis, my doctors had no clue that these infections could attack the lymphatic system and cause lymphedema (LE). Even when I began presenting with a huge, swollen belly with red, leathery bumps that bled and leaked a clear liquid, all they could think of to do was prescribe diuretics for the “edema.” I ended up diagnosing myself by researching online and told my doctors I had LE, but by then, it was severe, Stage 3 LE. Then I began getting cellulitis in my scrotum. To be perfectly blunt, my groin area is now so swollen that I look more like a woman than a man. I have been hospitalized here for 2 1/2 years this time (too long to go into) and I have steadfastly refused to allow females to help me with intimate matters, because I would feel deeply humiliated for a woman to see the way I look. I cannot tell you the number of yelling, screaming fights I’ve had here because they refused to bring a male from another department to help me if none were present in the wing where I was. I have had to lie in my own filth countless times, sometimes overnight, until a male was available to clean me up. In fairness, the hospital does try to give me male helpers as long as it’s not inconvenient for them. However, any woman patient here can request a female assistant at any time and she will be cheerfully provided one, while I am seen as a troublemaker and an angry loudmouth, all because I stick up for myself. The more they discriminate against me, the angrier I’ve become. Now they are only giving me male assistants during the day. At night, I have to hold it in for hours, or wet the bed and lie in it, like an animal. What’s really galling is that no one here is honest enough to admit that yes, they can see how this would be extremely humiliating for me. The area is so swollen that you have to touch it and probe it to make sure the urinal is in the right place. The assistant has to put his face practically right in there. My doctor told me that in all his years of practice, I am the ONLY male to object to female help. I’m not that stupid — maybe he is, but I’m not. The worst part is that THEY CAUSED THIS with their complete ignorance of LE and now they expect me to humiliate myself several times a day for 2 1/2 years. They have destroyed my body, my life, and now they want to destroy my dignity, which is the only thing they haven’t managed to take from me. What, if anything, can I do? I want to die. I’m not saying I want to kill myself, but if death comes, I would welcome it. Please help me. Thank you.
Hi Steve! So sorry to hear you are going through all this. Do they have patient advocates at that hospital? If you don’t have one, you should get one and have someone else fight on your behalf. It is not an unreasonable request. And I seriously doubt you were the only man to request this. Also, talk to hospital administration and express your discontent. Hospitals are all about ratings these days and don’t want any bad reviews.
Best wishes and hope you feel well soon!
Dr. Linda
Dear Dr Linda, thanks so much for your reply. Believe it or not, they do not have patient advocates here at Valley Medical Center. It seems to me that WA is a state with laws that overwhelmingly favor doctors, hospitals, and nursing homes. I can’t even find any information online about which State agency is in charge of complaints against hospitals. I did file a complaint with the WA Human Rights Commission, but they never replied. I have talked to hospital administrators until I’m blue in the face and they refuse to budge. They do go through periods when they’ll provide me with male assistants but according to them, some of the guys eventually get “burnt out” from working with me all the time. The problem is they’re not willing to bring a male from another unit to help me, or hire more males. I think that’s sexual discrimination, pure and simple. It may be legal, but it’s not just. I remember when African Americans were not allowed to drink from the same water fountain as whites; that was legal at the time, but it certainly wasn’t just. As for reviews, I left a very negative, truthful review of this hospital on a very popular website. I even told the admins that I had written it. They didn’t seem to care.
It seems to me this may be a city mouse/country mouse situation. Those of us in very rural settings don’t have the luxury of urology options. I drive an hour to a small town with a small urology practice. This doctor is great, but the possibility for diversity in the gender of his staff is limited. He hires itinerant professional assistants when big procedures require them (such as the urolift I referred to in another post). I have learned to overcome anxiety associated with nudity in front of female nurses and techs because there aren’t any good other options. Those of you in metropolitan areas have many more options available and I am glad you have them. But please don’t second guess those of us that don’t. I have gotten used to these professional females dealing with my intimate exams. My dignity is intact.
I think it is very individualized. Many of my male patients don’t mind having a female doctor otherwise they would not come to me. And most female healthcare profressionals are just that: professional. I am rather shocked about the stories I am reading here and about what these other men went thorugh. I can totally understand why they feel like they would rather only male professionals taking care of them. I think some of these stories cross the line of sexual harrassment and those doing these kind of things should have been disciplined. I also agree with the main point of the original article that the medical profession does not do nearly enough to consider male modesty. Men are expected to drop their pants while women are given gowns to cover up. I have seen this so often. We need to do more to make all patients feel comfortable. But, I also agree that every man has a different degree of comfort/discomfort and we should not judge them because of that.
Dr. Linda — It’s interesting that you should use the phrase “sexual harassment” in connection with some of the experiences posted here. I was reading an article on that subject recently and was shocked by how closely my own reactions to a “chaperone” ambush matched those of harassment victims — depression, anxiety, self-blame, difficulty reconstructing memories of the incident, and so on. As you say, reactions vary from individual to individual, but the medical profession needs to be more aware that nudity and temporary loss of bodily privacy (especially in the presence of the opposite sex) can be triggers for serious emotional and psychological distress, for both men and women. Respect for patient dignity, at least in non-emergency situations, MUST include meaningful provider choice and informed consent to the presence of any participants in examination and treatment.
You are spot-on describing my panic attacks, loss of sleep, anger and pushing away friends.
I scheduled treatment after promised same-gender care (4x) for intimate urological procedures by a prominent Clinic in Weston FL (originally out of Cleveland). Promises made and broken; berated by the head urologist for making a “big deal” out of it; had 1st offending nurse enter the exam room on 2nd visit, while I waited, naked waist down, pretending to look for something; berated by office coordinator; told I would have the procedure performed by a “female” nurse. Moved my 2-week protocol to 5 if I wanted male care. Refused any additional Friday spots (need weekend to recoup). I cancelled all care from them though I had purchased prescription ($600) for 6 treatments and only received 1. Be ready, retaliation Can happen when u challenge the system. All trust in medical field is gone.
I sent a reply today but when I hit send, a message came up saying it was denied due to resembling a bot. Could you let me know if I have to resend this reply?
My apologies but I don’t see it.
I must be different then most guys. I always preferred having a female doctor to start. I just feel more relaxed in room for some reason. And once I’m in the exam room I have never felt a need for modesty whatsoever. Had a very recent apt about a skin rash that had returned in the genital area and my Dr wanted to also do a quick look at all my skin. I had no issue with removing the gown and being nude during this exam. This is not 1st time I have had to be fully nude in front of my female doctor and it has never bothered me at all. Same with my female dermatologists(recoverying from skin camcer)Also had a testicle ultrasound and a female tech preformed it. Had no problem being nude in front of her as well(i asked if it was ok to take shirt off cause room was warm and i sweat easy and was going back to work).I was actually surprised to learn by reading this that guys have a problem with modesty and female doctors.
While in New York City I went to see urologist Dr. David Samadi, who is often seen on TV as a medical advice consultant. In the course of my examination I was unclothed from the waist down and a young and attractive female nurse injected lidocaine in my urethra to prepare me for the doctor’s insertion of a camera device. I lay there for several minutes as the nurse cleaned up and attempted a friendly chat. During this time another female nurse came in briefly and appeared to be gathering something. All while I am totally exposed. When the doctor came in he brought with him a third female nurse and the first one left. While he was doing the insertion of the camera device with the nurse assisting him, the nurse who had come in earlier came back again. I noticed that there was not a male nurse to be seen, and the entire staff that I saw was female. I left there feeling diminished.
Here in Los Angeles I went to Tower Urology at Cedars-Sinai Hospital to see Dr. Premal Desai. Several tests were done on me and every nurse and technician was male. I can’t tell you what a difference it made in the way I felt about the experience in contrast! There were plenty of female nurses and techs present, but it was obvious they assign males to male patients. I’ve returned there several times and I am always put in the care of male staff. I leave their office feeling good about my time in that office rather than humiliated. If I were still in NYC I doubt I would have returned to Dr. Samadi’s office, and because I probably wouldn’t have asked of another doctor’s office if they have males to attend to me, I may not have followed through with the care I needed.
Do you think this was because of different practices in different cities or it was related to just that medical office?
Honestly, what’s the big deal? What difference does it make who sees what? We’re all human beings.
For many, it is a big deal and we should respect their modesty. Many find it embarrassing to be undressed in front of others, esp. when there is more than 1 person present. A patient is already anxious about what may be wrong with them or what procedure will be done to them. We need to lessen their discomfort. Getting medical care should not be a humiliating experience. Patients need to be able to trust that the healthcare workers have their best interests at heart. They should help ease suffering rather than contribute to it.
Okay, I guess I can understand that someone may find it embarrassing to be undressed, but what does that have to do with the sex of the doctor or nurse? And embarrassment doesn’t equate to humiliation- isn’t that a bit extreme? However, I have long noticed the double standard regarding male vs female nudity, i.e. male nudity is not as big a deal in many cases, particularly for young people.
Dr. Linda — Thank you for this clear and eloquent statement of the case. Embarrassment and unnecessary invasion of bodily privacy do indeed cause real emotional suffering; they do interfere with the patient’s care, and tolerance does vary from individual to individual.
I wish your comment could be reproduced and hung on the walls of every examination room in the country.
I am recovering from a urolift procedure which involved both male and female manipulation of my genitals. I am one of those that doesn’t mind being seen or manipulated by either gender so I truly had no issues. I understand I don’t speak for all men. What saddens me is that our society has regressed into the feeling that nudity is always equated with sex. My nurses saw me nude, but I don’t think they saw me as a sexual object. Not that many years ago, everyone shared one bathroom in their homes. Children grew up taking baths with their siblings and nudity was seen far less sexually than it is now. I wish we could return to that ethic.
So you don’t recognize dissent or any other point of view? No backtalk!
We need all opinions here. Your comment has now been posted. See my previous reply.
In my opinion it is a big deal. I have been totally embarrassed many times because nurses/doctors/techs because they “have seen it all” I will never return to one hospital because of how the techs treated me during and after a procedure. I have also known of male patients who were stripped in a roomful of people and left laying without cover even after they have said “no” . Nurses forgetting to offer tear away shorts so a patient does not have to lay in bed nude from the waist down. Then becoming upset when the patient requests them. Nurses refusing spouses to be present while they are preparing the patient. No reason why they cannot be present. I am sure they have seen it all. Nurses getting all atwitter because they get to perform such things as shaving a male patient or placing a foley catheter. There is no room for any of this behavior.
Carl, it appears you haven’t read the other comments in this discussion where the reasons for discomfort are clearly stated. YOU may not have a problem with being nude or exposed in the presence of females who are strangers to you, or maybe you enjoy it, but a LOT (maybe most) of men do. When I’m nude in the presence of a woman it is for the purpose of sexual activity, but it is very difficult for me to be exposed in the presence of women for any other purpose. And don’t tell me that it should be OK because they are professionals, because they are also females who look and often talk about it later. Just as you said, “We’re all human!”
I would add that they are not all professionals if the word infers training and education. In my State LNA’s (what is a CNA in many other States) can be licensed at age 16 after 80 hours training (including clinical time) at a vocational school. They do not have to be a high school graduate. In order to be termed a Medical Asst, all one needs is someone willing to call you a Medical Asst. There is no licensing, certification, or educational level required. Many Med Tech certifications come after maybe a year’s schooling/training.
The people I describe above have been trained to perform certain tasks. They may be very good at what they do but that is not the same as being a professional. The word is way over-used. I draw no comfort from the mantra that anyone wearing scrubs is a professional and thus is somehow above inappropriate behavior. Some of these folks we’re dealing with are still teenagers.
Hi Lee;
Actually I have read all of the comments, but I still don’t understand the “humiliation” that some of you feel. It seems that sex is the only context in which you feel that it is ok for a woman (and we are talking about adult women here) to see you nude. Therefore any encounter with a woman that you have while undressed is questionable because it implies sexuality. Perhaps you should challenge your preconceptions. In fact, there are many settings in which I have found myself in this scenario in which there was no sexual element at all (medical, unfortunately, but also nude beaches, art classes, family life, etc.). You also seem to be afraid of the possibility that a female nurse, doctor, or technician, upon gazing at your penis, will “often talk about it later.” Allow me to set your mind at ease — why on earth would this happen — do you really think that you are so very remarkable? Probably not. Also consider the possibility that a male nurse might very well be a homosexual, so what is the difference between a heterosexual female and a homosexual male? And how would you know if a female nurse is a lesbian? I know quite a few of both. By the way, you are way out of line to suggest that I “enjoy” being exposed to females. I am not an exhibitionist and if you seek reasonable discourse you should avoid name-calling a guy (me) you know nothing whatsoever about.
Dear Dr. Linda,
I replied to this post, but I don’t see it here. Perhaps because my email has changed? I didn’t save it and really can’t reconstruct it. Please put it up if you can.
My apologies. For some reason, it got marked spam but I restored it and it should now appear.
Carl —
You have made your own feelings on the subject clear. However, you don’t seem able to understand that other people’s feelings can be different from yours and just as legitimate, just as worthy of respect and consideration. Emotional responses to situations are facts, they are part of the situation, and must be treated as such. They will vary from person to person, and no individual response is qualitatively “better” than another’s.
No, Dr. Linda, I have rarely had a doctor who seemed to take male modesty into consideration. Even when there were males on staff who could have been assigned to me, they operate on the assumption that all their staff are professionals and it shouldn’t matter. One time when I had to go to the ER for a non life threatening issue, but for which I had to be completely undressed, it was females who took care of me, when I saw males who could have done it just standing around. On that occasion also, the curtains were not drawn for me as I lay there for all the world to see, but I noticed that the female patients were very carefully closed off from any prying eyes.
I have a great mental exercise people can do to better realize how you felt at your men’s health care provider. (Works for either sex just swap genders) I’m using it to mentally prepare myself for upcoming procedures.
Lay face up, naked on your bed in your bedroom. Imagine it’s about the size of the doc’s office. Extend an arm as though needed for a test. Then imagine the aide holding your arm is a very young female. She’s glancing at your private parts. Look down and see what she is looking at. Next imagine another female (your age) enters and casually views your private parts and then another. They all view your exposed, private parts and began to prepare and discuss the procedure until the doc shows up 4-5 minutes later to begin the REALLY intimate stuff. A few of the females aid the doc, others leave and are replaced by new ones. All are fully viewing your private parts, sometimes glancing to put a face with the “parts.” You are naked in a room full of women of varying ages and your private parts are the main attraction. Imagine yourself in that situation and you may have a tiny glimpse of how embarrassing, horrible humiliating male urological health care is in most practices and hospitals.
Oh, and if it’s your prostate, just raise and hold your legs like they’re in stirrups while you imagine the women in the room with you.
Don’t take this exercise as gratuitous, it’s not. For me it’s mental preparation to lessen mental effects. For many men it’s humiliation happening daily.
I submitted a reply approximately a couple of weeks ago and have not seen it posted. I was contrasting my experience with two different doctors; one in NYC and the other in LA. Is there a problem?
Hi Lee! My apologies for any delay. I have been incredibly busy. I went back and approved the comments that were waiting approval but I don’t see the one you mentioned. I don’t know what happened to it but if you would like to post it again, I will be sure to approve it right away.
Dr. Linda
http://www.dailywire.com/news/20735/denver-nurses-obsessed-dead-mans-genitals-get-hank-berrien?utm_source=dwemail&utm_medium=email&utm_content=090717news&utm_campaign=position1
I had read that and was appalled that they weren’t fired on the spot. Sad to say, but the reality is that because the patient was a male it is not viewed as such a big deal. The nurses got a relative slap on the wrist and are back at work, presumably with full access to the male patients for their salacious entertainment. Society does not yet view men as deserving of basic dignity in medical settings, nor apparently after we’re dead either.
If it happened to a woman with male healthcare providers, they likely would have been suspended and possibly prosecuted.
i am in the first visits of duel male problems, front end and rear. My first experiences with the doc’s team of young female nurses have been very embarrassing. my understanding of the procedures ahead of me, which will probably be performed by basically all-female staffs sounds like total humiliation in an already horrible situation. MY QUESTION: do female caregivers have any idea of the humiliation and embarrassment their male patients may be going thru? just to know that they know may be some comfort. i am thankful for their care; but, for me it feels all wrong.
Kt, I think that the female nurses & techs think that so long as they are polite and act in a professional manner that men are supposed to be OK with it. Men do own much of that perception in that men rarely speak up and ask for male staff or complain if the nurses & techs have been a bit too casual with their exposure (too much exposed, or exposed for too long, or exposed to more eyes than is necessary).
Being polite is not the same as being respectful. I wish the medical world knew this.
Federal regulators need to pass a law banning all healthcare employees from carrying cellphones with cameras on the job.
First offense, warning and loss of one day’s pay. If caught with patient pics, immediate termination.
Second offense, suspended a week no pay. If caught with patient pics, immediate termination.
Third offense, employee is fired.
Facilities aren’t doing enough to protect their patients. It’s time for regulators to step up and protect the public they serve.
The temptation has got to be removed. Only way to do that, is remove the camera phones. Any ban must be backed up with teeth or it won’t be effective.
Regards,
John
Thank you for putting this point of view out there. I’ve been emotionally distress every time I think about my recent visit to the urologist and procedures done by a very young female. She entered, took my info and chatted and then ended up being the one to do the procedure . I’m 57. Violated? Upset I didn’t think to ask for a male nurse? Whatever, the emotions are stressful. I’ll request the male nurse next time.
Maybe I’m unusual but I don’t mind at all having a woman examine me — actually I think I prefer it, it’s more natural. I don’t really think that women doctors or nurses are ogling me, I’m not that gorgeous. The only doctor who ever did a thorough testicular exam as part of a physical was female. Perhaps a male doctor would have been embarrassed by touching me that way.
These issues always come up under modesty issues. They are ” Not ” modesty issues, rather respectful care. A female nurse recently in NY surrendered her nursing license for taking a cell phone pic of a male patients genitals and sending it to her coworkers. A female physician was sexually assaulting her male patients for years at a hospital in New Mexico and the OR staff never reported it. There is no such thing as gender neutral. As a male patient I want the EXACT same privacy and respectful care as female patients receive. There are NO male mammographers and no male RN’s working in L&D . Why can male patients not receive the same respectful care.?
Steve:
If you ask the AMA they will tell you it’s due to a lack of male techs & nurses in the industry.
There’s a lack of male caregivers because the AMA doesn’t actively recruit men to enter the field & those that do are stymied because most of the hiring is done by women who will not hire the guys (even when they are more qualified then the women) simply because they don’t want to wrinkle the skirts of their female rank & file.
Regards,
John
Yes,I would like to say my modesty was not taking into consideration at a place called Mid -Valley Surgery Center.They wheeled me into a very large room with other patients and staff.Had me lay on my stomach uncovered in front of everybody,some female nurse was putting a sticky foam on my buttocks for i don’t know what,then they sedated me instead of the area where i was to get a epidural steroid injection.I think they thought I was knocked out,because the nurse at my rear said “Did you get that picture”. Twice she asked this other nurse.I seen the nurse hold up her phone in the air like yes,yes.I went into a panicked state.Next thing I knew I was back in the changing room with the gown thrown over me.When I put in a grievance later in the week.The grievance dept of IEHP treated me like I was overreacting.And found In favor of them.I will never go to a facility,hospital,Doctor again.
Very well spoken. The problem starts with the AMA. They’ve rurned a deaf ear and a blind eye to this issue. Very well knowing what the answer to this problem is. It seens that all they’re interested in is money along with the pharmaceutical industry. Then they wonder why men don’t go to tbe doctor. They’re as bad as whats going on in washington d.c. Look in the mirror people.
For nearly three decades I worked in the juvenile justice system with 16 to 19 year old boys who were incarcerated. In the early ’80s, because of equal access laws, women began to be hired to do the same jobs the men did. It was a disaster, but it remains that way to this day, no matter how much evidence to the contrary. There are frequent fights between the boys, and all the women staff can do is run in circles blowing their whistles until male staff gets there to break them up. But no where is it more inappropriate for women to be working in the male facilities than in the dorms where the boys sleep, shower and use the bathroom. The dorms at all the county facilities are wide-open spaces where there is no way to have any privacy. The boys have to be watched as they shower and use the toilet, and as they change clothes. A large percentage of the females who work in these facilities are young women, which creates a unique problem when an 18 to 19 year old young man is being observed in the shower by a 22 to 23 year old young woman. I could tell many stories of inappropriate behavior by women on the job, and often the boys were left confused and victimized. Very often I would hear these women make lurid observations about the boys. So, again, just because women who are working with males might appear to be doing it in a professional manner, everybody knows there is something wrong when a male is naked and exposed in the presence of women. This relates to the discussion of male modesty in the medical professions, because there are places that women just don’t belong, just as males don’t belong in similar places for the modesty of women. And oddly enough, in the facilities for the incarcerated young women, there are only a few men who are there when they need the muscle, but these males are almost never in the dorms.
You are absolutely right!!!!! There is no excuse for ignorance. The medical profeddion is very ignorant! Men should have the same options as females. Whether its for testing, office visit or surgery. Then many wonder why do men retaliate so much against the medical profession with guns ect? Perhaps they’re not reslising the problem that they created. I speak up for myself. Afterall no one else will. I’ve been abused so many times by medical staff that I had enough of their mess. Yes they’re human but there are certain things you just dont do to males or females. I other words there are no ethics or morality.
Finally, someone who gets it! Some excellent points made in this article…
…And as stated, the medical profession is completely indifferent to male modesty and will routinely dismiss male patients’ wishes with bullying and shaming tactics.
…Aside from being a very nasty — indeed, pretty evil — way of dealing with a patient who is putting his trust in you. How many men after receiving such abuse subsequently avoid a repeat and consequently experience preventable medical problems as a result? …But how many medical professionals give a damn?
Exactly — the standard “you haven’t got anything I haven’t seen before” dismissal could be equally well applied by the male patient to the female staff member — how would she feel about the male patient being a spectator at her next vaginal examination? It’s utterly irrelevant how comfortable the medical personnel feel: it’s the patient who’s undergoing the distress.
But how many female medical personnel are remotely interested in male concern about modesty? How many would even care if informed?
I had a close female friend who was a nurse. Through her I became friends with some of her co-workers. We were in our twenties and early thirties and these people talked all the time about their male patients in a way that caused me to be very concerned about my modesty around young female caretakers. They discussed the physical attributes of male patients very openly, and even laughed about one guy who didn’t “measure up” to their expectations. I remember them talking about one young and handsome man who was safely enough asleep that the women went into his room one by one to raise the covers and check him out. So, just because a female nurse or tech can behave “professionally” in the presence of a patient, she is still a heterosexual woman who has close friends who she is perfectly free to talk to about her day at work. I don’t want my exposure to be fodder for some woman’s chit-chat on the weekend gossip line.
Hello Regan:
Your female nurse friend like her female nursing colleagues are what they proudly call themselves the “World Champions” of gossipers.
They’re so busy gossiping to each other about each other and their patient interactions that they have completely forgotten why it was they entered the field of nursing.
I for one am truly amazed, at how Gallup can year after year proclaim that nursing is the most trusted and ethical field. They must be talking to people that haven’t had to use the system yet.
Once upon a time, women went into nursing with the honest intention that they wanted to help people and improve the human condition.
The same cannot be said about women entering the field today. Today, it’s not about answering a call to help the sick or improve the human condition. Today, it’s all about a paycheck.
These days, there are very few “real” Florence Nightingale’s left in our healthcare system.
It comes as no surprise that their third most gossiped about category, is the male appendage. If you’re “normal” sized, they don’t bother with you. However, be thee on the large or small size, now that’s something to gossip about and they will gossip about you until everyone knows about you.
An outsider would ask, what happened to nurses advocating for their patient? One cannot be a true advocate and a gossiper.
Gossip has become so ingrained into the nursing culture now, that many have completely forgotten why it is they became a nurse in the first place and the sad thing about that is, their patients are paying the price.
Florence Nightingale once said “The very first requirement in a hospital is that it should do the sick no harm.” She also believed that a nurse’s ethical duty was first and foremost to care for the patient.
The “Practical Nurses Pledge” states that every nurse will not reveal any confidential information that may come to their knowledge in the course of their work.
Aren’t people’s body parts considered confidential information? So why are you gossiping about peoples body parts? You’re in direct violation of the pledge you once told everyone you’d live by.
The ANA revised the Code of Ethics for Nurses with Interpretive Statements and declared 2015 as the year of ethics in nursing. Too bad that year didn’t carry forward to subsequent years.
Every time a nurse needlessly exposes their patient and then goes off gossiping about their patient they are in direct violation of their own code of ethics.
The nursing profession right now reminds me of a patient with amnesia.
Both are looking for their identity.
Could nurses be gossiping about their patients as a coping mechanism to offset their frustration with each other and their administrations?
One nurse who is tired of all the bullying that is currently running rampant through the field hit the nail on the head when they said.
“How can one demand respect when we don’t treat our patients with respect?”
Nurses are out there demanding respect from one another and everyone else. They don’t seem to get it.
Respect isn’t given.
Respect is EARNED.
The only way gossiping in the healthcare industry is ever to be curbed or stopped is from the top.
It’s up to the administrators to set forth a zero-tolerance policy on gossiping and bullying. Then back up that policy with teeth so the message gets across to all personnel no matter their pay grade or title.
To all nurses be thee male or female that reads this.
Each and every time you feel the urge to gossip about an interaction between you and your patient remember, you are do the following.
1. Disrespecting and compromising your patient.
2. Weakening the nurse-patient relationship.
3. Violating your own professions code of ethics.
4. Ruining your own reputation.
Is that really what you want to do? Is it really worth it? If you said yes to either question then nursing isn’t your calling, please find another career.
Regards,
Raffie
You are correct! I can’t stand the cavalier attitude of healthcare professionals whether it’s a male or female patient. It should be automatic,, programmed into their minds to, draw the curtain, keep patient covered if possible. Give a darn. Care. Pretend you care.
Two weeks ago I had a cosmetic procedure that required general anesthesia, after which I was unable to urinate. A male nurse was tending to me and he said he could insert a catheter, and he went to get the materials he needed to do that. A female nurse overheard him and she left the room right after him. In less than a minute a female doctor, this female nurse and three other female nurses were back in my room prepared to insert the catheter. Just as the doctor was beginning, the male nurse returned to the room prepared to do what he said he was going to do, and saw these five women surrounding my bed. He pointed out that he was going to do the procedure, but the lady doctor told him she was taking care of it. The guy shrugged and left, but not before catching my eye with a disapproving look. We both knew what was going on there. I was seething with anger at this purposeful and unnecessary violation of my privacy, and felt completely objectified at giving these young women their thrill to share with their friends later.
Reagan, file a complaint with the hospital and demand an explanation for why the male nurse was overridden and why there had to be 5 women to do the catheter. They do that kind of stuff because they know most men will be too embarrassed to speak up or to complain afterwards. It is only by calling them out on it that we have any hope of men being afforded basic respect in the medical world.
That’s absolutely dreadful. Reverse the sexes and imagine the furore that would have ensued, had a female nurse been displaced by five men to insert a catheter…
When it comes to medicine (as with life in general), women matter and men don’t.
I’m stumped as to why you didn’t throw them out of the room? This improper behavior goes on because men don’t speak up.
that sounds pretty awesome to me. The more women the better
But yet you said nothing at the time. You could have insisted the females leave
Hi Jesse:
His is a classic case of men not wanting to speak up out fear of seeming weak and incapable when in reality he’s not. Sterotypeites.
Until men find that inner peace within themselves and know no matter what anyone else may think or say that they are their own man and will speak up when they and they alone feel something isn’t as it should be, nothing will change. They will never LEARN they are in the wrong.
Women speak up against healthcare ALL THE TIME. And the system listens.
If ALL men who are wronged would put their fears and egos aside, speak up, and file legal grievances if necessary, the system would be put on notice that not only women but men don’t like what’s happening and its time to change the way they do business.
When we start doing that across the board I guarantee you, medical personnel will think, before they act. Because if they don’t, it could be expensive and/or time consuming.
Regards.
Dave
Dr. Girgis — Thank you for posting this article and for hearing us. I had an “ambush” encounter very similar to Jim’s (April 10, 2017, above), with a female NP I’d been seeing for 5-6 years and thought I had a good working relationship with. Then I had my first “intimate” exam with her — regarding a mass I’d noticed on my left testicle. After the initial discussion, she left while I undressed, lay down on the exam table, and covered myself with a drape as she instructed. But when she opened the door again, one of the intake nurses (also female) was right behind her. Without a word to me, they positioned themselves directly across from each other at my hips. Then the NP pulled the drape completely off me, and I was exposed to both women from waist to ankles. I was so shocked and embarrassed I literally couldn’t speak – the NP hadn’t said anything beforehand about bringing in a witness, never explained why it was necessary, and never asked my permission for it (which I certainly would not have given). Before this encounter, I had never even heard of “chaperones,” and had never been undressed in a doctor’s office for anyone but that doctor. The whole encounter left me feeling insulted, disrespected, and humiliated. I had trouble sleeping and focussing at my job, and ended up seeing a therapist for a few months.
To give credit where it’s due, I did register a complaint and the group practice recently retrained all of their providers and nursing staff on better communication with patients. They have also recognized the need to provide “chaperones” of the same sex as the patient, not the provider. For myself, however, I have decided that I cannot risk being exposed to another unwanted “chaperone” of either sex. Therefore, I have reluctantly accepted my (female) therapist’s advice to see only male physicians or NP’s in future. Up until this experience, I actually preferred female providers, but I cannot risk the emotional harm of another ambush.
I do have one question that was never answered. What specific reasons would a female physician have for requiring a witness when doing intimate procedures on a male? I understand the history of male physicians abusing female patients, but the reverse is vanishingly rare, as are sexual misconduct lawsuits by male patients against female physicians. Some of the reading I’ve done suggests that some female physicians simply feel uncomfortable around male nudity. I’d be very interested to hear your thoughts on this. Thank you.
Hi! Thanks for your comments. We were trained since the time we were students to always have a chaperone with us when we are examining a member of the opposite sex. This purely for medicolegal reasons. I remember being told that you can never be sure who will try to make a complaint.
Thank you for the additional information. Every study I’ve read indicates that male patients overwhelmingly (85%-99%) prefer NOT to have a witness or observer (of either sex) during intimate procedures. Given that, I wonder if it might be time for medical schools to rethink their advice to automatically require “chaperones” for opposite-sex intimate encounters. Such a rigid policy is likely to exacerbate the issue of male patients’ distrust of female providers. Regarding legal concerns, perhaps some kind of waiver could be provided in exchange for dropping the automatic requirement? Again, I appreciate your willingness to provide a forum for discussing this issue.
I think that is very sound advice.
But let me ask you this, were you “trained” to NOT inform your male patient, that you would be bringing in ANOTHER female, to be the chaperone? This is 99% of the issue that MOST men have…not informing men, when you know the chaperone will be female. THEN…expecting him to succumb to the embarrassment of both of you seeing his private parts. I would also ask the question …how many females would be comfortable, if they were about to undergo an intimate exam, if a male doctor asked another male to come in and watch her exam. Would she allow the exam to proceed? WHY is it that this still goes on? Why doesn’t the medical field acknowledge and change? Why are men expected to endure this? I would love to know, from a female doctor, what her prospective is….knowing that the male patient will be uncomfortable with this. And still the exam continues. Will you, take a drape, in the least, to prevent your female chaperon from seeing anything? Or allow her to view as well?
We as men here in Wyoming don’t seem to have the chaparon issue. In the area that I live in there are several options of male doctors so I never had a problem of winding up with a female.
Linda, Men are NOT better behaved than women but they are not “passively aggressive”, i.e., they do not bring false charges of sexual impropriety. They are directly aggressive, if they behave badly it will be during the examination. There really is no need for a chaperone with a man’s modestly sensitive examination unless the provider is worried about direct aggression in which case she would need a male chaperone.
I have a suit going right now for Violation of Privacy against my AP nurse for bringing in two women to watch my skin examination without my consent. I am a retired attorney, I will give you some advice. It is about patient communication! You can bring in anyone you want but if you don’t communicate with your patient you risk a lawsuit!
Thank you for publishing this wonderful article!
Very well stated. I am a male that doesn’t see a doctor for anything other than routine blood work and exams. I have no issues with my doctor but far too often I have gone in for tests or proceedurs and been undressed with all women. I know I have urological issues but will not go. The last time I went I was left in a room naked from the waist down with two females. It was humiliating and I never went back.
What would help future patients is if you told the urologist why you won’t be back. I silently suffered through the indignities for years but finally found my voice. It was liberating. I am always polite and professional, but I do speak up. If enough of us speak up they won’t be able to continue pretending that there isn’t a problem.
Hello Joe Spot.
You are NOT alone. There are many men who suffer in silence because the urology field refuses to accept and acknowledge the fact that there are male patients who just don’t feel comfortable being exposed and handled in such an intimate way in front of women. A male nurse has a better understanding of what a male patient might be going through. Urology just won’t accept that fact! Just like a female nurse in L&D would have a better understanding of what a woman is feeling during childbirth.
Until such time as the urology field accepts this fact of life and hires more male nurses to attend to male patient’s needs, men will continue to forego needed medical tests and procedures rather than hand their dignity over at the door.
It seem that only when mothers, sisters, wives, and daughters start losing their men earlier than they should, will the country wake up and address this issue.
Regards,
Raffie
I went for a routine physical. EKG, etc. I hadn’t seen a doctor in 10 years, because of no healthcare. I had submitted a pre-exam letter explaining some of my concerns. I had a small lump around my right testicle. I was told in the waiting room at my visit the NPA does all the exams. Hesitantly I agreed. I was told to undress, and put on a blue gown. She knocked and came in. I went through all the regular things. The first issue I encountered was while on the table with wires hooked up, with gown open, another “Female” tech came in without knocking, who I didn’t know, and got some supplies out of a side unit, looked at me, then left. No words exchanged.
Then it came time for the intimate part. She excused herself, and then came in a minute later, with another female tech in blue. (This is referred to as an ambush, by the way) I was given a prostate exam in her presence. Then she asked me to turn over and she examined my genitals, and asked about the testicle issue. She attempted to find the lump, in front of the other female tech who held a hand-held light on the area, and after feeling the testicle for several minutes, could not locate it. The manipulation actually left me feeling sore in the area. She could NOT find it. After the exam she recommended an Ultrasound. I drove across town, and went to an imagine center for Ultrasounds. I gave my sheet to the “female receptionist” who entered the date into her computer. So obvious she knew I had a lump and my personal business. Then I was called. You guessed it, another female. I was told again to undress from the waste down, lay on the table, legs closed with a rolled towel under my scrotum and cover. She must have been under 30 years old. She sits next to me. Pulls up the towel FULLY exposing me, then puts Jelly in the area, which was too hot by the way. Then she takes 10 to 15 minutes with the hand held device prodding and taking measurements. Since then, I have undergone 4 ultrasounds, by different woman. NEVER EVER offered a male tech. Highly intimidating. I am reading about how more and more woman are coming into the medical field. The field needs to change fast in being sensitive to men in the exam room. YES _ MANY men have modesty and WANT to be respected and given choice. NOT expected to suck it up. That ideal is failing men as patients. Then people wonder why so many men DIE of prostate issues and such. If you want to save more lives, then give more men the dignity and respect they deserve. Don’t be so sure they feel comfortable with a woman in the exam room. Start giving them a choice of gender for doctor AND chaperone.
By the way, after the initial visit I had with the NPA and testicle issue, I saw my primary ( male ) doctor about the issue a month later, and he found the lump in 30 seconds. Knew exactly how to find it, and didn’t hurt the area, and leave me sore afterwards. He knew my area from having the same parts himself. He wasn’t as insensitive and aggressive as the NP was.
Don’t hold your breath: complain and they’ll just humiliate you and carry on as before.
Exactly. Anything to do with men’s issues is best dealt with by another man.
Hi Jim:
As far as the ultrasound goes, if you ever need another one and a male sonographer is unavailable or not on staff, call ahead and ask the facility for a male radiologist to run the test on you as some of them have ultrasound training.
My brother needed one recently. He called his local imaging center and hospital & inquired as to who would be doing the testing. Both facilities only had young women as sonographers on staff so he told them that was unacceptable and didn’t schedule the test.
Two days later, a radiologist from his local hospital called him asking what he needed as he understood why many men aren’t comfortable with the way the testing was done and he was qualified to do ultrasounds.
Needless to say my brother (and his wife), were happy. The radiologist set everything up from that point and he got his needed test.
Regards,
John
I was hospitalized 3 weeks ago in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. On the third evening, as the doctor was leaving the room, she said she would send someone in to help me in the shower. Minutes later a male nurse came in. I was hooked up to an IV and had just had a minor surgery. The curious thing is that he completely disrobed to shower me. We were two naked dudes, which didn’t bother me at all, but I’m sure a female nurse would not have done that. If he had not removed his clothing he would have been soaking wet, so it made sense that he not wear anything. Do male patients get males to assist them in this way, or how would it be different if a male were not available? What is the protocol in a case like this?
Interesting! I never heard of that being done before.
I doubt you’d find that anywhere in the US., though it makes sense in the way you describe it. I wonder if hospitals in Mexico routinely provide male staff for male patient intimate procedures.
Hello:
First let me say, this is NOT in ANY way a rant against women.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. They work just as hard as their male counterparts.
I’m also NOT a healthcare worker.
I’m just an American citizen understandably concerned with what is currently one of thee BIGGEST problems that must be solved within the American healthcare system.
I believe in order to get “real” gender parity in the healthcare industry, the strangle hold currently held by women on the nursing & healthcare tech professions must be broken. Walls must come down and roadblocks removed so qualified men that are look for these types of positions, can get hired.
Since their inception, the two vocations have grown over the years to become for the most part two “all girls clubs”.
Part of the reason is for years, men never gave a second thought to ever becoming a nurse or health tech so these women went about building their careers and over time began wielding powerful influence over the healthcare industry. In their profession you played by their rules, their way, or you take the highway.
Then times started changing.
Men started asking themselves why can’t I become a nurse or med tech.
They saw no reason why not so, they quietly went about getting the education and proficiencies needed to become a nurse or technician.
In the beginning, when and/or if they got accepted by a school that in itself was a victory.
When they went to classes in the beginning many were given a cold shoulder by their female counterparts which made it all that much harder for them to achieve their ultimate goal of being an RN or registered technician.
They were told they don’t belong. It’s a woman’s profession. Yada, yada, yada. The profession achieved their objective in the beginning & discouraged many men from continuing their studies & many men dropped out.
However, there were men despite all the negativity being thrown their way by women, ignored it & went on to get their degrees.
There perseverance, showed other men they too could get a degree in nursing or med tech if they really wanted to so as a result, more men started going to nursing and med tech school.
Now, the powers that be in the profession at first brushed off these males trying to get into their world as a fad that would die off.
Over time however, more men started going to school & it started worrying the leadership. They had to “do something” to discourage these men.
So what did they do, they moved quickly and closed off any position remotely related to any kind of female intimate exposure to all male nurses & techs.
Curiously though at the same time they closed off positions to men, they didn’t even give a passing thought to doing the same & close off positions to females relating to any kind of male intimate exposure.
They could have hired these men to take care of male patients if they requested a male caregiver.
Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to welcome these men into their profession with open arms, they looked for ways to further shut them out.
So for a long time now fully qualified men and male patients have had a very difficult time dealing with the healthcare industry.
People that don’t just hand over their dignity & respect to the healthcare profession are automatically belittled and shamed into giving it up or they are ignored by the system.
A lot of the problem might have to do with the nursing & tech leadership wielding their influence where hiring practices are concerned. Many HR departments today are run by women.
A doctor wants to make his or her male patients feel more comfortable so they decide to hire male nurses to work with male patients if the patient chooses.
The older female nurses that have been with the practice for years get wind of this. They don’t want their apple cart upset so they wield their influence & convince the doctor that the male patients will be fine with their care. So the doctor without thinking of his patients needs cancels any hiring.
Urology department head decides they need to increase staff to handle the increase in patients.
The patients are mostly male.
Current staff of all women tells the dept. head the men are fine with their care even though the patients were never asked so the department head listens & hires more women.
These same scenarios plays out in doctor’s offices and hospitals across the country on a daily basis.
Men are being discouraged left & right from applying for positions they are fully qualified for because they don’t want to break up their “all girls club”. Guys are running into “Females Only Need Apply”.
So because of the unwillingness to yield, many male patients have decided better to forego needed medical care rather then put themselves through the humiliation the healthcare system will put them through.
This man could be your dad, brother, husband, or your son. Are you really willing to take a chance with their life?
To any and all doctors and hospital department heads out there. Why not JUST ASK your patient in say a survey.
Do you prefer same gender care for any intimate type test or procedure?
Simple question.
In the beginning, it might be tough getting some men to respond because you’ve conditioned them so well over the years to put up, shut up, & take whatever you give but, I think you’ll find from those that respond, many want same gender care for intimate type tests and/or procedures.
Why is it we don’t we see any clinics specifically for men’s healthcare needs opening up? Clinics run and staffed only by men for men.
You see all women’s clinics going up everywhere.
I was on the road & I saw a Shirtless Male Nurse on a billboard. The caption read “Who’s caring for your mom?” Next to the words was a young topless man wearing a stethoscope.
Is this the way the industry views male nurses and their work?
Had it been a female in just her bra with a stethoscope around her neck on that billboard, there would have been an uproar like nothing ever seen before.
The system must be open to both sexes and run on an equal basis across the board.
Stop using the crutch of the costs involved in hiring enough staff. People retire all the time and there are men looking for open positions. They don’t want to be glorified orderlies. They want a nursing/tech career.
Start thinking about the NEEDS of the patient and what you can do as a healthcare professional to give them the best possible outcome from their visit. Believe me we’re tired of hearing “we’re all professionals & we’ve seen it all before”. Look at all your so-called “professionals” that have been caught for breaking patient rules.
Best wishes to all,
Raffie
Raffie, this is why men need to speak up as patients, and also as community members. Too often the medical world hides behind the “nobody has ever brought up that issue before”.
Something I am in the midst of is posing related questions as just an interested party in the community. I recently inquired of the local hospital about the extent to which 11th & 12th grade LNA students from the local tech school are involved with intimate patient care in their facility, and letting them know that I think it is inappropriate for 16 & 17 year old kids to be allowed such exposure (despite 16 year olds being able to get their LNA license in this State). I could tell that my questions gave them pause to think and that they’ve sharpened their protocols a bit..
I then went to the tech school itself to inquire about whether they have any outreach to bring boys into the program so as to help address the problems caused by the gender imbalance that currently exists. They are going to change their promotional video as a result.
I am now waiting on a response to a similar query to the BSN nursing program at the local college.
Last summer after an ER visit I got a call from the hospital surveying my experience. I noted that I thought it was unprofessional for the doctor to come into the room with a female scribe in tow without ever introducing her or asking me if it was OK that she be there. I said that had there been intimate exposure involved it would have totally inappropriate. I could tell by the reaction that nobody had ever said this to her before, and after agreeing with me that I was right she said she would bring it up at that week’s staff meeting.
It is only speaking up and being proactive that anything will ever change.
RU,
I get what you’re saying here.
It is totally inappropriate for minors to be in any exam room doing any exam especially of the opposite gender.
Good Day:
First let me say, this is NOT in ANY way a rant against women.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for women. They work just as hard as men & deserve nothing but the best.
I’m also NOT a healthcare worker.
I’m just a concerned American who has dealt with the healthcare system as a patient and has seen what currently is one of the many problems that must be solved by the industry working together with the general public.
I believe in order to get “real” gender parity in the healthcare industry, the strangle hold by women on the nursing & healthcare tech professions must be broken. Walls must come down and roadblocks removed so qualified men that are waiting can get hired.
Since the inception of the two vocations, they grew over the years to become for the most part two “all girls clubs”.
For years, men never gave a second thought to ever becoming a nurse or health tech so these women went about building their careers and over time began wielding powerful influence over the healthcare industry. In their profession it became their rules, their way, or you take the highway.
Then times started changing.
Men started asking themselves why can’t I become a nurse or med tech.
They saw no reason why not so they went about getting the education and proficiencies needed to become a nurse or technician.
When they got accepted by a school that in itself was a victory.
When they went to classes in the beginning many were given a cold shoulder by their female counterparts which made it all that much harder for them to achieve their ultimate goal of being an RN or registered technician.
They were told they don’t belong. It’s a woman’s profession. Yada, yada, yada. The profession achieved their objective in the beginning & discouraged many men from continuing their studies & many men dropped out.
However, there were men despite all the negativity being thrown their way by their female counterparts and teachers, ignored it & went on to get their degrees.
There perseverance, showed other men they too could get a degree in nursing or med tech if they really wanted to so as a result, more men started going to nursing med tech school.
Now, the powers that be in the profession at first brushed off these males trying to get into their world as a fad that would die off.
Over time however, more men started going to school & it started worrying the leadership. They had to “do something” to discourage these men.
So what did they do, they moved quickly and closed off any position remotely related to any kind of female intimate exposure to all male nurses & techs.
Curiously though at the same time they closed off positions to men, they didn’t do the same & close off positions to females relating to any kind of male intimate exposure.
They could have hired these men to take care of male patients if they requested a male caregiver.
Instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to welcome these men into their profession with open arms, they looked for ways to further shut them out.
So for a long time now fully qualified men and male patients have had a very difficult time dealing with the healthcare industry.
People that don’t just hand over their dignity & respect to the healthcare profession are automatically belittled and shamed into giving it up or they are ignored by the system.
A lot of the problem might have to do with the nursing & tech leadership wielding their influence all over the industry where hiring practices are concerned. Many HR departments today are run by women.
A doctor wants to make his or her male patients feel more comfortable so they decide to hire male nurses to work with male patients if the patient chooses.
The older female nurses that have been with the practice for years get wind of this. They don’t want their apple cart upset so they wield their influence & convince the doctor that the male patients will be fine with their care. So the doctor without thinking of his patients needs cancels any hiring.
Urology department head decides they need to increase staff to handle the increase in patients.
The patients are mostly male.
Current staff of all women tells the dept. head the men are fine with their care even though the patients were never asked so the department head listens & hires more women.
These same scenarios plays out in doctor’s offices and hospitals across the country on a daily basis.
Men are being discouraged left & right from applying for positions they are fully qualified for because they don’t want to break up their “all girls club”. Guys are running into “Females Only Need Apply”.
So because of the unwillingness to yield, many male patients have decided better to forego needed medical care rather then put themselves through the humiliation the healthcare system will put them through.
This man could be your dad, brother, husband, or your son. Are you really willing to take a chance with their life?
To any and all doctors and hospital department heads out there. Why not JUST ASK your patient in say a survey.
If you needed an intimate type test or procedure, would you prefer it done by and in the presence of only the same gender as you or would you prefer someone of the opposite gender take care of your needs?
In the beginning, it might be tough getting some men to respond because you’ve conditioned them so well over the years to put up, shut up, & take whatever we give but, I think you’ll find from those that respond, many want same gender care for intimate type tests and/or procedures.
Why don’t we see any clinics specifically for men’s healthcare needs opening up? Clinics run and staffed only by men for men.
You see all women’s clinics going up everywhere.
I was on the road & I saw a Shirtless Male Nurse on a billboard. The caption read “Who’s caring for your mom?” Next to the words was a young topless man wearing a stethoscope.
Is this the way the industry views male nurses and their work?
Had it been a female in just her bra with a stethoscope around her neck on that billboard, there would have been an uproar like nothing ever seen before.
The system must be open to both sexes and run on an equal basis.
Stop using the crutch of the costs involved in hiring enough staff. People retire all the time and there are men looking for open positions. They don’t want to be glorified orderlies. They want a nursing/tech career.
Start thinking about the NEEDS of the patient and what it will take to give them the best possible outcome from their visit.
Best wishes to all,
Raffie
Is there a doctor in the house who will agree with the above and try to get the medical profession moving in this direction? A little compassion and concern would go a long way. Please consider the anguish of being in this situation.
Reginald:
Rarely if ever will you find doctors and/or healthcare administrators willing to engage the public in meaningful conversations on this subject as it is one of the biggest taboos of the industry.
For them to talk about it would be tantamount to them admitting they’ve been giving guys a raw deal.
There are some though that will talk about it & they agree men are being short-changed by the system.
The key for men everywhere is to speak up loud & clear against the system if you don’t like how you are treated.
Only when enough men have spoken up, will this issue not be brushed under the rug anymore.
Regards,
Raffie
I hear what you are saying and it has to change. More people need to speak up. Men should be given more repsect for their privacy.
I couldn’t agree more. I am a bit older now, but I remember well having to undergo those very embarrassing sports physicals in school. We (boys) were herded into rooms, 10 at a time, and told to undress to our socks and underwear (in front of each other), then set up in a line where the doctor went down the row of each boy and had us drop our shorts while he inspected our genitals and we did the cough test, all the while the Female nurse went with him with a clip board, and viewed each one of our genitals as each boy pulled their pants down. Our School nurse was probably in her late 20s, early 30s. Very embarrassing. No privacy given or sensitivity to modesty!
Now it has become evident that more school districts are hiring Female NPs to do the sports physicals. ( I believe to save money) and of course most school nurses are female. So now boys have to endure not one, but 2 females in the room. I hope sincerely that in the least, the genital test is done behind a screen? Without the school nurse in few view as well? I’m not certain. One other thing I will bring up is that Girls, in sports physicals, do not have to expose any private parts during the physical. For that reason, a male doctor (could) be hired to do both genders. A fantastic article on this subject worth reading is:
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/08/sports-physicals-includes-provisions-privacy.html which really sums up the embarrassment boys go through during these exams. I feel it is wrong for Female NPs to be hired to do such exams on young boys due to full genital exposure. The schools should be forced to hire male doctors for those physicals. (Many boys refuse to go out for sports in fear of the embarrassment!)
Hi Jim,
Female nurses at the schools here in Wyoming are not allowed to give sports physicals. The kids and the parents here wouldn’t put up with that nonsense if it were permitted. I would think in other states that do permit that inappropriate
behavior that nurses at schools would need permission from the parents first before giving a physical to minors.
Hi Jesse, in my original article I make mention of Female NPs…. doing BOYS sports exams. Because 99% of the school nurses are FEMALE, then the boys will be exposed to 2 females. The Nurse isn’t qualified to the exam, but there is a great chance she will be IN THE EXAM, or around EACH boy when they are naked. Not only is it wrong for the School District to hire a Female NP, to do MALE sports physicals, but wrong to allow the School Nurse any access to naked parts during hernia tests. I must ask….. would you ever expose any of the Female Student base, to 2 males in a sports exam? If the parents knew that was the case, they would be pounding the doors of the school demanding answers. But Boys must be exposed to 2 females? The answer is a 150% NO. Things need to change, and change fast. STOP the double standards.